Problematic warblade maneuvers?

[Brian Gibbons]

White Raven Tactics - One of the best/the best maneuver in the book.

I consider this the easiest maneuver to fix: Tell your players that it's their choice--they can use the maneuver as written, with modifications of their choice, or not at all.

Let them know that NPCs will be bound by the same rules.

The ability of lower-level minions using WRT to magnify the power of a high-level spellcaster (without significantly increasing the EL) is sufficiently frightening that any GM worth their salt should be able to cause players to beg for the maneuver to be banned.

 

[blargney the second]

So make it into the first level spell Snake's Swiftness? For a 3rd level maneuver? Weak.

I could definitely go with "you can only gain the benefit of WRT once per round" though. That's plenty reasonable.

You missed a detail: WRT is a swift action. Think quickened snake's swiftness.

 

[Nifft]

You missed a detail: WRT is a swift action. Think quickened snake's swiftness.

That's actually pretty sweet. And it compares favorably to a Marshal's 4th level ability Grant Move Action.

Hmm, I think I'll be stealing that. Thanks! -- N

 

[blargney the second]

Come to think of it, that change would actually make WRT fit in better with the rest of the White Raven spectrum. Less powerful than Flanking Maneuver, more powerful than Tactical Strike. Especially if it was restricted to a single melee or ranged attack. (ie no spells, strikes, or supernatural abilities.)

 

[RigaMortus2]

A player of mine is about to start playing a warblade.

Are there any problematic maneuvers I should be watching out for? If so, what have you done to make them manageable?

thanks!

Depends on the campaign/setting/DM/other players/etc.

A lot of people think WRT and IHS are broken. I think they are perfectly fine, at least for the games I am involved in (both as a player and a DM). But YMMV.

 

[Drowbane]

You know that doesn't work, right? You can't ready WRT more than once.

I'm running a game now where our warblade likes using WRT on our kineticist. It's a powerful combo, but I'm letting it happen. I'm just so darn tickled that they are fighting as a party for once instead of as a mob.

Though I forgot about the range limit. I'll be enforcing that one from now on!

My ToB says nothing about preparing any particular maneuver once, so we assumed they could be prepared likes spells...

but neither of our Warblades are doing that with WRT. Yet.

His party has two Warblades, both of whom ready WRT. (That's quite an investment, in terms of the whole party.)

WRT is attainable with 2-3 feats. Well worth it, even if its just 1/encounter. Or take a 1 lvl dip in Warblade, then take one fewer feats and be able to renew it much more often.

 

[AllisterH]

WRT - I actually don't find it too abuseable since the 10 ft range limit tends to keep things in check.

IHS - Keep in mind that to use manoeuvers, you have to be able to move voluntarily. People forget this.

TC - Remember the rules on jumping. I find only thri-keen can abuse this discipline.

 

[Arkhandus]

Come to think of it, that change would actually make WRT fit in better with the rest of the White Raven spectrum. Less powerful than Flanking Maneuver, more powerful than Tactical Strike. Especially if it was restricted to a single melee or ranged attack. (ie no spells, strikes, or supernatural abilities.)

Well, the suggested change of making it give allies an extra attack right at that moment already covers that, pretty much.

Strikes always require a standard or full-round action to use; they aren't an attack action. Most supernatural and spell-like abilities likewise require a standard action or longer to activate (some don't, of course; you can use Smite Evil with any melee attack, frex, since it doesn't have the normal standard-action activation time normally associated with supernatural abilities).

My ToB says nothing about preparing any particular maneuver once, so we assumed they could be prepared likes spells...

You can only prepare each maneuver once at a time. Nowhere does it say you just prepare them like spells, or that you can prepare the same maneuver more than once.

The Sage confirmed this in Dragon Magazine months ago, also.

Maneuvers are readied, anyway, not prepared; so it's not the same as spells. You don't have maneuver slots. You just receive a certain limit on how many maneuvers you can ready at one time; you can't ready Sapphire Nightmare Blade twice, because it's not two maneuvers, for instance. They aren't slots and aren't treated as such.

 

[castro3nw]

My ToB says nothing about preparing any particular maneuver once, so we assumed they could be prepared likes spells...

It also doesn't say you can ready a maneuver more than once. "Maneuvers readied" is how many different maneuvers you can ready at a time. "Spells prepared" is how many slots you have to fill with spells. Basically maneuvers are like light switches. They're either on or off. Spell slots are like boxes. You can put whatever you like in them.

WRT is attainable with 2-3 feats. Well worth it, even if its just 1/encounter. Or take a 1 lvl dip in Warblade, then take one fewer feats and be able to renew it much more often.

Ok. I've heard WRT attainable with just a couple feats several times. It's true. 2 feats, and WRT is yours once/encounter. What most people don't explain is that you also have to meet the initiator level requirement.

A level 3 maneuver takes initiator level 5. With non-initiating classes building at 1/2 level, this is level 10 at the earliest. With the way feats are typically set up, Fighters can take it at 10, while nearly everyone else has to wait until their level 12 feat.

If you take the 1 lvl dip in Warblade, first off it has to be before you take the Martial Study feat to gain WRT (super easy) and it likely cuts out the necessity of taking 2 feats, as you can pick up a White Raven maneuver as one of your initial ones. It also lowers the minimum level to 9. (1+.5x8) Sounds like a good deal if your build can handle a level of Warblade.

Anyway, my point is that its not something that you can acquire very early on if you're starting from low level. And at those points, the mages are tossing 5th and 6th level spells... Is it that bad compared to some of them?