Problems with Iron Heroes?

[shadow]

I've been looking at Iron Heroes for a while. I'm drawn to the idea of a focus on character abilities rather than a proliferation of magic items. It seems like the perfect system to run a low fantasy game in. However, I've heard a lot of people talking about problems inherent in the system. I've briefly perused the books and found the rules to be consistent. However, I've never been the one to pick up on balance issues; other people seem to have an ability of detecting potential problems with balance and rules in general. So, what are the specific problems with Iron Heroes? Are there errata to correct those problems? Do these problems drastically affect play? (If so, should I look elsewhere for a low-fantasy system?)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Y'know, hong is pretty much the go-to guy for Iron Heroes around here. If he doesn't show up here, check out Circus Maximus in the "games" section (the Coliseum) and look around. You'll eventually find one of more of the several threads he's posted about the game. IIRC, he also has a link to his website with all his IH material in his sig.

 

[Arkhandus]

The main problem I've seen lots of threads about before was the Arcanist or whatever that magic-user is called. It was a hastily tacked-on addition, admitted by the author, and its spellcasting mechanics are quite unbalanced, and there are some unclear parts from what I recall. So, if you avoid using the Arcanist in your games, that should nip one of the main complaints with Iron Heroes in the bud.

 

[A'koss]

I've been looking at Iron Heroes for a while. I'm drawn to the idea of a focus on character abilities rather than a proliferation of magic items. It seems like the perfect system to run a low fantasy game in. However, I've heard a lot of people talking about problems inherent in the system. I've briefly perused the books and found the rules to be consistent. However, I've never been the one to pick up on balance issues; other people seem to have an ability of detecting potential problems with balance and rules in general. So, what are the specific problems with Iron Heroes?

You'll find that Iron Heroes only really glaring issue is the Arcanist class (Personally, I use a converted (UA?) Battle Sorcerer), but if you go to Monte's IH Board or the Iron League you'll find no shortage of Alt-Arcanists. Other game issues have been addressed by the errata thread. Someone on Monte's boards continues to compile the errata into a single, easy to read file but for the life o' me I can't remember who...

All-in-all though Iron Heroes just brimming over with goodness that far outweighs any of it's (generally minor) issues.

 

[ruleslawyer]

As an IH DM, I'd say that the game engine is hugely tweakable, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work out of the box. The IH forums are a good place to start to see what the actual errata are (not that big) and what fans have done to mess with the system (a LOT):
http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm36

The errata are here:
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_IL_errata

and the FAQ thread is here:
http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm36.showMessage?topicID=754.topic

hong's IH page is a good place to see exactly how tweakable the game can get:
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/ih/

Also check out the IH house rules wiki:
ironheroeshouserules.pbwiki.com

In general, IH is FAR less error-laden than, say, 3.0 D&D. The arcanist is, as Arkhandus says, the main bone of contention, and the best idea is probably just to throw the class out and use the Arcanist in True Sorcery or the Mage in Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth.

The only other class that (IMHO) requires any work is the Armiger, simply because the mechanic's a bit wonky (having a d20 character archetype that WANTS to get attacked works oddly in practice). The current IH guru Adam Windsor (who goes by crowroadaw on the IH boards) has a workup on the boards; several other posters do as well. But everything else (mastery feats, stunts, skill challenges, etc etc) works fine, and are excellent examples of "finished" mechanics.

 

[Odhanan]

However, I've heard a lot of people talking about problems inherent in the system. I've briefly perused the books and found the rules to be consistent.

You are right. The people you're talking about are largely exagerating and a vocal minority. Moreover many observations are based off theory, not actual practice. Or what ruleslawyer said, essentially.

So, what are the specific problems with Iron Heroes?

Apart of a few typos, there is one main issue people keep pointing out about IH: its magic system. The main problem would be the balance between the schools of magic. A minor problem would be a weak Armiger. All these points have been modified by errata, and you can visit the IH boards at montecook.com for all the variants and modifications the fans have come up with over the months. Some are quite inspired. For instance, a thread about spellcasting options.

Are there errata to correct those problems?

Yes. Errata/FAQ of Iron Heroes. More available in other threads.

Do these problems drastically affect play?

No. I'm using the rules as written and errata of Iron Heroes. I haven't had any major problem with the game.

 

[ValhallaGH]

In general, IH is FAR less error-laden than, say, 3.0 D&D. The arcanist is, as Arkhandus says, the main bone of contention, and the best idea is probably just to throw the class out and use the Arcanist in True Sorcery or the Mage in Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth.

The only other class that (IMHO) requires any work is the Armiger, simply because the mechanic's a bit wonky (having a d20 character archetype that WANTS to get attacked works oddly in practice). The current IH guru Adam Windsor (who goes by crowroadaw on the IH boards) has a workup on the boards; several other posters do as well. But everything else (mastery feats, stunts, skill challenges, etc etc) works fine, and are excellent examples of "finished" mechanics.

Quoted for truth!

 

[Felon]

I've been looking at Iron Heroes for a while. I'm drawn to the idea of a focus on character abilities rather than a proliferation of magic items. It seems like the perfect system to run a low fantasy game in. However, I've heard a lot of people talking about problems inherent in the system. I've briefly perused the books and found the rules to be consistent. However, I've never been the one to pick up on balance issues; other people seem to have an ability of detecting potential problems with balance and rules in general. So, what are the specific problems with Iron Heroes? Are there errata to correct those problems? Do these problems drastically affect play? (If so, should I look elsewhere for a low-fantasy system?)

There's quite a lot of erraticized material in the book. When you hear folks saying all the issues are trivial, that the only people objecting are a vocal minority, and that all the objections are based on theory and not actual gameplay, then rest assured you're hearing biased fans dismissing all detractors. Some of the feat chain benefits and class abilities are pretty awkward, even ham-handed.

Still, it's got a lot of great content that I think D&D would do well to imitiate, such as the stunt and challenge systems. I suggest you just take the plunge and check it out yourself. Nobody here can say with certainty what will drastically affect play for your group. Do bear in mind, the system is all about building a variety of devastating combatants, which means to a large extent it's about powergaming and numbers-crunching and mechanical advantages, so if that's not something you are fond of then that's going to be a deal-breaker.

 

[Particle_Man]

There is a bit of a learning curve in one sense:

Players have to remember/be taught that they can use maneuvers/stunts/challenges etc.

DMs have to remember that they can put in "Action Zones" and to tell the players about how they can be used for maneuvers/stunts/challenges etc.

While the "token classes and token feats" are great for players, as a DM I stayed away from them for the bad guys, as I had enough variables to worry about.

Also, there is no alignment. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is your call.

 

[iwatt]

While the "token classes and token feats" are great for players, as a DM I stayed away from them for the bad guys, as I had enough variables to worry about.

Agreed. That's why Mastering Iron Heroes introduced the villain classes. Plug and play balanced challenges for yout PCs.