Products That Overwhelmed You

[Doc_Klueless]

Any game that has a thick, heavy lore to it usually overwhelms me. So Glorantha or Harn (for example). Forgotten Realms. Golarion. Etc. Etc. It's just too much for me to process and keep ready in my mind.

 

[amethal]

Couldn't a GM just curate such a list, remove the options to streamline the experience?

That's something of an aspiration of mine now that Pathfinder 1 has officially finished. (There's still plenty of 3rd party stuff coming out, of course.) Basically treat it like GURPS and tailor the options to the particular setting I'm running.

However, while GURPS players don't expect to be playing with the whole of GURPS (that would be insane, and anyway lots of it is mutually exclusive), Pathfinder seems to attract people who really, really like having as many options as possible. So I'm not sure all my players would accept it.

 

[Retreater]

That's something of an aspiration of mine now that Pathfinder 1 has officially finished. (There's still plenty of 3rd party stuff coming out, of course.) Basically treat it like GURPS and tailor the options to the particular setting I'm running.

However, while GURPS players don't expect to be playing with the whole of GURPS (that would be insane, and anyway lots of it is mutually exclusive), Pathfinder seems to attract people who really, really like having as many options as possible. So I'm not sure all my players would accept it.

I've run several PF campaigns with the stipulation "core rules only." I don't think every player would balk at the restriction.
And certainly as PF1 becomes more niche as the years go by, players looking for a game should become more accepting of house rules.

 

[Staffan]

First one that comes to mind is Exalted, in each of its editions. The core problem is that each character is mechanically defined to a large degree by their Charms, special magical abilities linked to a skill or an attribute that let you do Cool Stuff. And then you look at a powerful NPC in a supplement and see that the writeup takes up a full page, 3/4 of which is a wall-of-text-style list of Charms, most of which have flowery but not particularly descriptive names like Reed in the Wind or Sagacious Reading of Intent or Countenance of Vast Wrath.

Ex 3 has, I think, fixed some of the bugs of earlier editions, and also fixed the discrepancy between skills like Melee having like 30 charms in the 2e core book and Bureaucracy having like 5. Unfortunately, this was done by coming up with systems for many other activities that are almost as involved as combat, which then gives non-combat skills lots of "hooks" for potential Charms. This, of course, made the system even more complex, and the Charms and Martial Arts + Sorcery chapters take up almost 250 pages. And that's just for Solars, which is one Exalt type out of about 10.

I am having some hope that Exalted: Essence will be more my speed, but we'll see.

Another one that overwhelmed me was Shadowrun, but that was mostly the gear (at least as a player, though I recall bouncing off it as a GM at an earlier point because I couldn't hack (hah!) keeping track of semi-separate rules for decking, magic, rigging, and fighting at the same time). My problem with the gear is that it's hyper-detailed, which leaves me with a strong feeling that I'm going to miss something completely necessary to my role—particularly since I was planning on playing an infiltrator, which seems rather gear-dependent.

 

[aramis erak]

Any game that has a thick, heavy lore to it usually overwhelms me. So Glorantha or Harn (for example). Forgotten Realms. Golarion. Etc. Etc. It's just too much for me to process and keep ready in my mind.

It's worth noting that RuneQuest provides a large part of the feel in the character gen, and the lore isn't essential to the game playing well, provided one gives in to the character gen tropesets, with most everyone having a spell or three.. My plays of RQ were not on Glorantha, but a lot of the feel was subtly provided in the mechanics of Character Gen and Magic.

If you pick up almost any D&D 5 module, they may be set in the [Best-Left-]Forgotten Realms, but few are really tied to them. I never cared for FR-lore, but my FR-lore fanatic players had no complaints, and I was working solely off the core and the hardcover adventure/campaign books. Plus, in 5E, FR is the default set of tropes, unlike 3E, where Greyhawk was, thus justifying charging people an arm and a leg for the 3e FR Setting Hardcover...

 

[Doc_Klueless]

These are all things that I know. I've been playing since... ugh... feels like forever. Yes, if I ignore the Campaign Settings, I don't get overwhelmed. But that holds up to just about anything. Back in 81 when I started 1e, we ignored most of the rules which made it super simple to run. Doesn't mean there weren't a lot of rules.

Doesn't change a thing.

The OP mentioned Campaign Settings ("In general, I have yet to encounter a campaign setting that doesn't completely overwhelm me"). I was just continuing with that thought. Lore heavy games tend to overwhelm me if I try to play that lore heavy game without just ignoring the lore. I have fellow friend gamers who thrive on that stuff. It just turns my mind to mush.

 

[Ghost2020]

GURPS 4th edition. I kept feeling like I needed to know it better and read the core books, as one can, but I never could make it through them. Also I was at a VERY busy time in my life and there were really no adventures I could just run and the prospect of creating GURPS content or printing other content was also competing for that dwindling free time. Eventually I just gave up.

I gave up on GURPS 4th ed too. Overwhelming trying to take in all the nuances. A lot to digest when reading. 3rd ed has a nice casual tone, great setup, and was easier to get into.
4th is a boring read, but a great reference though. I liked 3rd ed, A LOT! I have a bunch of monster books, settings, more than a few adventures per genre - fantasy, supers, horror, etc.
4th Just felt like it was aimed at the very experienced GURPS player. 3rd Ed Revised was perfect. Even the lite version of 3rd ed had magic in it, and was itself a nearly complete game.
I sold my 4th stuff and just kept my 40+ 3rd ed books and we're all happy now.

 

[aramis erak]

Yeah the 1e beginner box covered 1-5. So very close to the E6 d20 variant. And more than the 1-3 Moldvay, and Mentzer Basic D&D sets. Moldvay did have the follow up Cook Expert set and Mentzer had the whole BECMI follow up sets though.

Actually, Moldvay covered to 5th, except for experience points needed for 4th and 5th
Mentzer also covered to 5th, again excepting the XP.
Denning Basic (black cover, usually obtained in the Big Black Box) actually covers up to 5th.

I only ever had 1 Palladium book and it was their superhero game. I loved to use the random tables to just generate a random superhero with a grab bag of powers and then try to come up with a name and origin and stuff... Playing it on the other? I don't even remember any of it, but I think trying to hit someone was a weird arbitrary thing like you want to roll and then add those modifiers and then beat 12 or something? I have no idea. It's somewhere in storage. I tried to run the game once but it mostly resulted in fun comedic moment than any concrete memory of the system itself. One of my player had rolled a RIDICULOUSLY OP mix of power... I think he called 'Golden Beast'. He was basically a golden Hulk that got dumber as he got stronger but also would turn into diamond at half HP or something... like a crazy mix of Hulk and Emma Frost.

Those random tables man.

You managed to pick the singlemost confusing Palladium game ever... All the others are more straightforward. Heroes Unlimited was just not well written, even by palladium standards.

 

[Voadam]

Actually, Moldvay covered to 5th, except for experience points needed for 4th and 5th

Actually Moldvay covered 1-3 and a smattering of rules you can apply to various higher levels.

Attacks went up +2 for characters levels 4+.

There was an optional rule for DMs to apply to higher level NPCs to have saves go up +2 for characters level 4+. This was explicitly not to be used in conjunction with the expert rules.

HD and Spell numbers went up for clerics, magic-users, and elves as detailed out for levels 4-6.

Thief skills were detailed for level 1-3 only.

Cleric turning was detailed for only levels 1-3.

XP requirements were detailed only for levels 1-3.

The intro self description "This rule booklet deals mostly with adventure in a dungeon and explains the different player character classes (professions) from the 1st to the 3rd level of experience."

 

[Undrave]

You managed to pick the singlemost confusing Palladium game ever... All the others are more straightforward. Heroes Unlimited was just not well written, even by palladium standards.

Just my luck then! Did I dream that combat system though?