Profanities

[billd91]

So you're okay with racist slurs?

But we're not really suppressing the specific syllables for the most part, like we do with profanity. The term gook is perfectly usable for substances of a gunky, oozy quality. And we measure the slope of a line by dividing the rise by the run. And the policy here on ENworld is that it's ok to feel you were gypped by someone when they lead your expectations to be higher than the disappointing reality.

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

So you're okay with racist slurs?

No, I'm not okay with racial slurs. The intent of a racial slur is almost always negative, and as I stated before, its the intent of a word that bothers me not the word itself. But that said, there are certain cultures that use what we would consider a racial slur amongst themselves, and apply a completely different connotation to it.

BD

 

[Umbran]

But words like crap don't have a different connotation and are used in exactly the same context as the bad word they are meant to replace.

They have nearly identical denotations. But, the fact that the two words are not equally acceptable stands as pretty strong evidence that they do have different connotations. The proof, as it were, is in the pudding.

For me this is an issue that defies all logic...

Yes. I believe I mentioned this earlier - most of the issue is not about logic, but about emotional content. By definition, then, it will defy logic. This is why Spock had issues with Kirk's "colorful metaphors".

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

Actually I don't find the use of screw and crap particularly intelligent either. However they are more socially acceptable.

So if I say excrement instead of crap, that's more intelligent? Or if I say "I got bilked by the IRS" instead of "I got screwed by the IRS", the first statement is more intelligent? Sorry, I don't buy that, saying I got screwed, or especially I got f---ed, is in my opinion a more accurate measure of my true emotional state. I just don't believe that the type of langauge someone uses has anything to do with his or her intelligence.

Ask yourself: Why don't you swear in front of children? Why don't you swear on Enworld? I'll tell you why: you will lose the children's parents as friends and you will be banned by Eric's grandma. My point is that we must accept the fact that these words do hurt others and are a poor form of communication. This is true especially on the internet where we cannot discern a person's meaning from their body language.

I agree with you here. I fully understand that I must abide by certain social conventiosn if I want to participate in certain activities or associate with certain groups. That's fine, I accept that. I may not agree with it, but I also have no desire to become a reclusive misanthrope to prove a point.

Of course we are getting away from the original poster's question of why some people feel offended. I suppose a book could be written on the subject.

Agreed. I think I've vented my spleen enough for one day.

BD

 

[Lockridge]

Yes. I believe I mentioned this earlier - most of the issue is not about logic, but about emotional content. By definition, then, it will defy logic. This is why Spock had issues with Kirk's "colorful metaphors".

I knew someone would turn this into a Star Trek thread sooner or later...

 

[Lockridge]

So if I say excrement instead of crap, that's more intelligent? Or if I say "I got bilked by the IRS" instead of "I got screwed by the IRS", the first statement is more intelligent? Sorry, I don't buy that, saying I got screwed, or especially I got f---ed, is in my opinion a more accurate measure of my true emotional state. I just don't believe that the type of langauge someone uses has anything to do with his or her intelligence.


Agreed. I think I've vented my spleen enough for one day.
BD

Don't mean to cause any spleen damage. Actually I think we're have a really good discussion.

My use of the word "intelligent" above tends to actually prove my point. I'm forgetting that I'm speaking to a D&D crowd who view Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma separately.
The intelligence I'm speaking of is actually "social intelligence" not math skills or anything like that.

This is an interesting point and leads directly to the discussion of why we tone our language down. The fact is that the intent is easily misunderstood by those who don't know us. Thats why we err on the side of caution.

 

[frankthedm]

What does everyone think about "fake" profanities, like Battlestar Galactica's "frack"? They use that a lot in some recognizable permutations: frack it, fracking idiot, mother fracker. Obviously it gets past the censors.

I Like those, though I prefer "frag". I loved pirates of darkwater for it's cornocopia of world specific vulgarities. It let the characters swear like sailors on childrens TV.

 

[Ranger REG]

Not to mention that it's the equivalent of waving a big flag that says, "I'm a NERD!"

Proud to be a nerd, suck to be a jock.

 

[STARP_Social_Officer]

As a representative of a nation where swearing is a national passtime, I find this discussion intriguing.
I swear like a drunken sailor who's just dropped the anchor on his foot. I have an incredibly foul mouth, in general. Of course I do - I'm an Australian. My conversations are littered with Effs, esses, and milder terms more suited for casual use. The rules of the forum being what they are, I shan't bother mentioning them.
However, I'm quick-witted enough to make sure I never swear in front of children - unless they do it first. I trained as a high school teacher, and as a general rule, we were told never to swear in a classroom, even if the kids do. Most teachers long abandoned that rule.
I hate people who poo-poo ("poo" is OK, is it?) swearing as "not clever" or the like, implying it is only used by the unintelligent or people who can't think of something wittier. For a start, I know a large variety of intelligent, articulate people who swear as much as I do. It's not a sign of lack of intelligence - swearing serves a purpose; namely, to let off steam. We swear because it is in our nature to wish to vent frustration, and by letting out an exasperated string of forbidden words we are able to do just that.
Interestingly enough, however, I hardly ever use "The Big One", the "Ultimate Swearword". It's the one that starts with "C" and refers to...well, you know. I understand it's the only one you really can't say on TV. You hardly ever hear it in movies. Perhaps that's why you rarely hear people say it aloud - it's just too "taboo" for most people to bother with.
What really intrigues me is how there can be "degrees" of swearing. Why, for instance, is the "C-word" considered to be more offensive than the "F-word", evidenced by the prominence of the latter and the rarity of the former in broadcasting. It's just a word. They're all just words. Why can I say "bloody hell" with reasonable certainty I'll get away with it, when saying "you effing c..." to someone results in, if I'm lucky, icy glances or at worst a savage beating. Why does one word have a stigma when another doesn't? "F***" and "shag" mean the exact same thing, but you can say one in a PG movie over and over again, but the other slaps you with a higher rating. Ditto with, as we've seen "s***" and "poo". I find the entire concept bizarre. I also find it interesting that people can be offended by swearing. I'm never offended by it. I understand that some people are, which is why I moderate my language around the elderly, my parents, children etc, but I just find it fascinating that the use of a single syllable describing a part of a body or an act of reproduction can cause such vitriolic fury.
Sometimes I make up my own swear words, just to see what happens. "Brodding" is one of mine. So is "spag". So far, I haven't been summonsed. I'm hoping it stays that way.

 

[Biohazard]

They're all just words. Why can I say "bloody hell" with reasonable certainty I'll get away with it, when saying "you effing c..." to someone results in, if I'm lucky, icy glances or at worst a savage beating.

Uh, you really don't know the answer to that? Perhaps one word is demeaning and degrading to women, and the other is a vague reference to a Judeo-Christian astral plane?

I don't know about Australia, but in North America the politically correct thought police have forbidden the use of any words that might be considered "racist". Witness the firing of Don Imus as an interesting recent example.