D&D 5E Progressive Spell Casting

[Kabouter Games]

Rolemaster and related games like Middle Earth Roleplaying had a system of spells that I really liked. Basically, it was a bunch of spell lists that represented a growing expertise in that class of spells.

If my home game had a wizard or sorceror I'd be doing precisely that. I much prefer that system.

Think I'd leave the crit tables alone, though.

Cheers,

Bob

www.r-p-davis.com

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I've lately been thinking about defining sorcerers without spells, by putting an envelope around a few basic abilities that they can use. Just make the envelope bigger as they level, maybe add a few new tricks. Heck, you could maybe have classes defined by what the sorcerer manipulates: Energy (Fire/Cold, Thunder, Lightning, Radiant, etc.), Matter (Earth, Air, Water), or Mind (Illusion, Telepathy, etc.). I'd have to see what they look like to know for sure if that is one class or three, but I suspect three.

So, an Energy Sorcerer might have to choose an energy type and then get abilities to go with that type:
Detect [Energy] - sense creatures or locations strong in that energy
Project [Energy] - ranged attack
Turn [Energy] - vs. creatures using that type of energy
[Energy] Barrier - make a wall of that type of energy which deals damage when crossed
[Energy] Strike - channel that type of energy through a weapon you are using for extra damage
Resist [Energy] - absorb/deflect that type of energy
You'd start with some collection of them and base values for damage, range, etc. As you level up, those base stats might get increase, or you get to add meta-magic style tricks to them. Different subclasses for each energy type (a la wizard subclasses by school) could get little thematic perks at whatever levels need a little spice.

A Matter Sorcerer (Bender?) would pick an element and get...
[Element] Barrier - whip up a wall of that element
[Element] Defense - get armor of, or defend yourself with that type of element
[Elemental] Movement - special movement ability through/with your element (possibly a subclass perk, due to the variability.)
[Elemental] Hindrance - trapping, pushing, or grappling at a distance with your element
[Elemental] Strike - a basic attack with your element
Transform [Element] - change the form of your element (water/ice, rock/mud or flowstone, air/vacuum?/mist?/poison gas?)
Again, the ranges, amounts, and other mechanical details increase with level, and possibly the expenditure of Bender Points. Each subclass would get perks and kickers for thematically appropriate for their element.

Mind Sorcerers (Mindwalkers?) wouldn't get to pick a sub-mind type, but they would possibly have other subclasses related to approach or specialization. Again, they would have base abilities, but I suspect these might qualitatively as well as quantitatively improve, possibly accessed by the expenditure of Mental Energy points. Some might require mental calm not possible during combat, making them a kind of ritual.
Empathy -> Telepathy -> Mind Link - ranged mental communication
Clairvoyance - remote viewing, psychic spying
Disembodiment - leave your body in ghostly form, can communicate.
Warp Senses -> Psychic Illusion -> Full Delusion - unlike illusionist, you don't create phantasms or shadows, you manipulate the senses directly.
Psychic Storm - a kind of ranged attack dealing psychic damage
Distract - induce fear, confusion, or stun conditions
Clarify - remove or protect against fear, confusion, or stun conditions
Charm -> Dominate
Mind Meld - let's you dig through someone's mind for memories or information
I could see subclasses for things like a Mentor with leadership/buffing abilities, a Medium with mild necromantic abilities dealing with spirits, ghosts, etc., perhaps some kind of not-Illusionist as well, a Detective would work well.

just my $.02

A great 2cp. I like it.

One of the things that always made me start something like this is that the 3.5e approach where basically every new wizard spell was also a sorcerer spell really annoyed me. To me, a wizard spell should be capable of much more complexity due to the nature of the energy being shaped by a spell, rather than just on the fly. In the end I went a slightly different direction.

For other reasons, I started expanding the wild magic rules, to account for a spell going wrong while you are still learning it, and also when a spellcasting is interrupted, that sort of thing. So sorcerers have a slightly higher chance of something going awry. This is part of making sorcery different in the method of casting. So sorcery uses only somatic components now - no incantation (verbal) since there is no spell, and no material. A spell focus helps them control the magic better.

Wizards don't require a spell focus, since the spell itself provides more control, as do verbal or material components. They can still use a focus to eliminate the need for material components.

It served my purpose of making sorcery different than spellcasting, without having to rewrite or add a bunch of new spells.

 

[cbwjm]

This conversation has reminded me of the series: war of broken mirrors by Andrew Rowe. It has a great magic system whereby people draw upon various dominions for their spells. They kind of act like a cross between a D&D sorcerer and wizard in that they may have limited access to only a handful of dominions but they are able to research new ways of using those dominions as they advance. They have some pretty traditional areas of control so some will be able to use fire or ice magic and others will have access to divination type spells through their ability to access the dominion of knowledge. Some sorcerers with multiple dominions could even combine them, though I only know of a single example of a shield spell tied to knowledge which would let the caster know what they were attacked with, granting them some insight into the enemy's powers.

I've just realised as I write this that this form of magic might be somewhat similar to a Mystic instead of the sorcerer/wizard cross (with dominions of magic equalling mystic disciplines) able to access more powers in their dominion as they level.

One interesting thing about the magic in this series is that it draws on the caster's body to cast their spells. A sight sorcerer, able to cast various illusions, will find it harder to see the more he casts sight sorcery until he rests. A pyromancer draws out his own body heat to cast fire magic, and the one metal sorcerer in the book had no idea why he became fatigued when he cast his metal magic but it must have been screwing around with the iron in his blood. It was an interesting method of magic.

 

[GMMichael]

Let's try another tack:

do you really want to be the guy who has to write up a new wizard class for every possible combination of spells known?

I'd just give the character a tutor, and let the apprentice try to wrangle new spells out of her.

 

[steeldragons]

Let's try another tack:

do you really want to be the guy who has to write up a new wizard class for every possible combination of spells known?

I'd just give the character a tutor, and let the apprentice try to wrangle new spells out of her.

hmmm. Well, I could, I suppose. But no, I don't want to be.

But at the same time, that's not really what I'm [or meant to be] suggesting.

It's not "you get to pick any three 1st level spells you want now. And 3 more at 2nd and 2 1st, 2 2nd level spells at 3rd..." Though we could certainly do that...and it would probably be the less labor-intensive route...let the player's pick what they want.

What I was suggesting was dictating the list/progression. "You get these thre at 1st level. Those are your options. There aren't any others. If you find other stuff, you can study it. But you can't really use it -other than reading it off a scroll [so it's gone/used]- until it shows up in your list of possible magicks.

"Then at 2nd level. You get these three additional new options to cast. Then at third, another 2 1st and these 2 2nd level options."

So I wouldn't HAVE to right out "all possible combinations"...just the one. You want to be a wizard/mage, here's what your spell/magical options are at each level.

That was the original idea/what I was originally going for.

We COULD, I suppose, work out a separate individual progression for various specialists. I'd be inclined to definitely do a separate "Illusionist" if nothing else.

But there's lots of other cool ideas popping up in this thread, though.