Project Daedalus OOC Thread II

[Agamon]

Hey, Hammerhead is back for good this time (I hope!). As for my 3 PP, I'd like to buy Obscure +3 as an extra to my Alternate Form. My recent encounter with Black Heaven in Gen:Leg really made this power seem attractive to me.

Sure, just don't expect to use Selective with it. That combo just don't sit well with me.

 

[Mimic]

I should have 8 points so I will take the extra subject for mimic.

 

[Calinon]

Bank 'em.

 

[Tokiwong]

Hankering for more Daedelus goodness

btw I got some clarification, hey Calinon you can use a Hero point to recover from the stun effect of the Stun power... got the word from Steve Kenson... who would have thunk?

 

[Calinon]

I read his response and I disagree. He'd allow it, but I wouldn't, and here's why.

The stun power requires a saving throw to break free because it is a persistant affect, like paralysis or snare. The stun affect on a hit does not because it is a one round thing. What you are basically saying by allowing hero point use on the stun power is that you can spend a hero point to automatically make a saving throw. If you do it for that one power, you'd have to do it for other powers like paralysis.

 

[Tokiwong]

I read his response and I disagree. He'd allow it, but I wouldn't, and here's why.

The stun power requires a saving throw to break free because it is a persistant affect, like paralysis or snare. The stun affect on a hit does not because it is a one round thing. What you are basically saying by allowing hero point use on the stun power is that you can spend a hero point to automatically make a saving throw. If you do it for that one power, you'd have to do it for other powers like paralysis.

Good reasoning, just not sure which way to go with it...

the rules are not explicitly clear that there is a difference, but I see your point, I like it, not sure why he would make that exemption for that single power

 

[Shalimar]

It specifically says it in the power that the only difference betwen it and a normal stun condition is that with the stun power, it could potentially last more ten one round, not that it can't be fixed with a HP. Think about it. What other power if you fail the save means that you are helpless and unable to perform any action, physical, Mental, or what ever for the duration, none of them. Its too powerful for a 2 point power for it not to have some weakness, Paralysis still allows mental actions, Stun does not allow anything so there has to be a balance, and that balance is the ability to use a HP to cancel it out. Remember, the book says nothing about not being able to use a HP to cancel it, it in fact states that the only difference between Stun Power and stunned condition is that Stunned condition can last for multiple turns, anything beyond that is simply inferred. I would point out that a character with the stun power can blow through an opponents HP very quickly and they are unable to use theose HPs for anything else on those turns.

 

[Calinon]

Paralysis says nothing about not being able to use a hero point to overcome it either, but the power is very similar to Stun. With stun you can still defend yourself physically, albeit your attackers get some bonuses, while with paralysis you have dexterity and strength of zero and can take mental actions. Both have penalties, but neither say you can't use a hero point to overcome the effects. That doesn't mean you should be able to, however.

It's In fact the wording on recovery is nearly the same, only the type of save differs. No other power has the penalty of being able to be simply countered with a hero point. Keith's gonna love the debate on his ooc thread

 

[Agamon]

Erf. You both make very valid points. Perhaps the problem lies in the HP expenditure, not the powers. Maybe using an HP should allow a Fort save to overcome being stunned, DC 15 for a damage stun, and DC 15 plus the rank for the power. Maybe that's too harsh to weaker heroes, I dunno.

Otherwise, I think I'm with Cal, the Stun power shouldn't be able to be overcome with an HP.

BTW, I was home for all of 15 minutes yesterday, thus no new issue. And I have another wedding to attend today, but I'll see what I can do about getting her going this afternoon...

 

[Shalimar]

The power inflicts the stunned status condition, just like fatigue inflicts the Fatigued (and then exhausted, and then unconscious) status condition. Use of a hero point removes those status conditions because those are two of the stated uses for hero points.