Pronouns

How should wizards have dealt with gender-unknown pronouns?

  • What they did was the best option

    Votes: 112 48.3%
  • Use the traditional he/him/his for gender unknown

    Votes: 79 34.1%
  • Use his/her him/her he/she

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • Use they/them/their

    Votes: 32 13.8%
  • Use it/it/its

    Votes: 3 1.3%

Barak said:
Ahh I see. Of course, replace courier with mob, and the 'their' is not singular anymore, even though the sentence remains the same. Of course, a mob with just one umbrella is kinda silly. :)

Actually, "mob" is still singular, so "their" wouldn't be the right word. And since a mob doesn't have a gender, the controversy being discussed wouldn't apply:

"The mob stepped inside and shook its umbrella."

Silly, yes, but grammatically correct.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I use he his because I'm male. If female writers were to use she her I'm all for it. That way we'll have a nice mix of both and it can even tell the reader something about the author - which isn't all that bad.

In our hobby we'd be seeing a lot more he his than she her but that does say something about the fan-base doesn't it? If it's true why hide it?
 

I would prefer they just stick to He/Him/His, however, what they did is prefered to idiotic things like post person or delivery individual or fire person. That kind of crap just drives me nuts.
 

Hypersmurf said:
I'm an individual, damn it.

I don't like my language implying that plurality is the default condition of humanity.
Dost thou truly object, or does it bother thee only in the third-person?

("You" is, of course, properly used only as a plural pronoun; when someone uses it as a singular pronoun, they're engaging in newfangled English, and I DO NOT APPROVE!)

Daniel
 

Pielorinho said:
Dost thou truly object, or does it bother thee only in the third-person?

("You" is, of course, properly used only as a plural pronoun; when someone uses it as a singular pronoun, they're engaging in newfangled English, and I DO NOT APPROVE!)

Actually, I'd whole-heartedly support a return to a distinct singular second person pronoun!

If only to head off the abomination that is "Youse".

As in "Have any of youse guys seen...?"

Yargh.

-Hyp.
 


For those that think that "he" does not exclude women, and is perfectly gender neutral, good for you! I am glad to see you standing up for linguistic tradition. That's mighty white of you. I mean, too many times we have been gypped out of our linguistic heritage and I think it is time to roll out the old paddywagon and round up these pc troublemakers! You have exposed the chinks in their arguments masterfully, sirs, and shown the wopping big fallacies involved. We must maintain the purity of our grammar, keeping it spic-and-span.
 


Zander said:
I'm glad you asked that question. The reason is that when English settled on "he" as the neuter pronoun, there was no concept of political 'correctness' or an understanding of what much later would be described as the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. The decision was entirely apolitical. In contrast, the use of "she" as a neuter pronoun was foisted on the English language for political reasons at a time when Whorfian thinking was well understood.

I guess i'm not convinced that the posited apolitical nature of the origin of 'gender-neutral' male pronouns even matters--it seems to me that the meaning we bring to language is grounded in current use much more so than in etymology. Thus, if we culturally ascribe connotations to words, it matters not whether those connotations are 'correct' or historically valid--all that matters is that those connotations are there. IOW, when our culture shifted to recognize that modern language constructions could influence thought (or even just worldview), it simultaneously caused existing language constructions to have the power to influence thought (or worldview) to the same degree.

[And, personally, the more i read about post-Medieval, pre-20th-C Western cultures, the more i think that he/him/his as 'gender-neutral' pronouns most definitely *was* an exclusion of females, historically--in general, even when both genders were being talked about, only the men being talked about were really being considered as relevent.]

Perhaps my education has warped me. While i'd never before heard of the Sapir-Whorf axiom, the ideas it labels are something it would only occur to me to question as an intellectual exercise, because they are so obviously true to me from simply observing the world. But then, my educational background is in equal parts in hard science (mostly physics) and folklore (including touching on dozens of cultures and languages), the former of which tends to dismiss semantic confusion in favor of math, and the latter of which is all about subjectivity and difference and culture (rather than objective fact).

And, i still maintain, that if you believe that choice of language doesn't influence thought, that 'she' as a gender-neutral pronoun is just as harmless/sensible as 'he'. I find it hard to accept that 'he' can be without greater connotations, when used as a gender-neutral pronoun, and yet changing it would somehow lose something (that putatively wasn't there in the first place). Or, more succinctly: 'because that's how we've always done it' is insufficient reason, IMHO, when there is any reasonable counter-argument of any sort. If that's the only reason for sticking with the traditional way, then i don't see a reason not to change.
 

'because that's how we've always done it' is insufficient reason, IMHO, when there is any reasonable counter-argument of any sort. If that's the only reason for sticking with the traditional way, then i don't see a reason not to change.

But perhaps "Because that's how we've always done it AND any other way of doing it comes with it's own set of problems" isn't quite as insufficient.
 

Remove ads

Top