Proposal: Allow Character Builder summary sheets in place of EW templates

[evilbob]

(So, how's McAfee working with Outlook on Vista for you? Ps. Your email address is visible, too.)

Those screen shots are great - thanks for posting them! It is indeed radically different from any other character sheet I've seen, but that's not really a problem. Do you feel that it is easy to input the data? Also, I assume that anyone with an account follow a URL to your sheet? Have you tried entering a paragon-tier character with tons of crazy rules and stuff - are they still easy to follow?

The only potential issue I can think of is if WotC sends them a cease & desist order like they have all those other sites that display power cards. If everyone moved to this site and suddenly it was gone, that'd be ... well a lot like if the wiki suddenly were gone here.

 

[renau1g]

Ugh... I hate Vista, but we "upgraded" at work last year from XP and my computer's been running much slower ever since. The data takes approx. 5 seconds to enter, you just have to upload the .dnd4e file.

Agree with you on the risk of C&D letter, although at least this one only displays what's already in the builder, and requires you to use builder files so assuming you didn't pirate it, Wotc is making money from you.

You can make a sheet public, meaning anyone in your Campaign can access/view it. If we set up a L4W campaign, then all of them can be loaded to that one.

iPlay4e - play 4e Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) online! Try this out & let me know if it links to my epic PC.

 

[evilbob]

Ooooooooh - it just links to the compendium pages! So it's not reproducing anything; they just track the links! Smart! Way to avoid copyright infringement.

YES your link completely worked and I'm completely already thinking that's an awesome idea. (It even has little "dice" functions that wouldn't be useful for PbP but are great otherwise!)

The only downside is that the DDI subscription is required to use it, either to upload or view. So it's a perfect solution... for anyone with DDI. Otherwise, we're back to where we were.


Off topic: have you convinced them to let you go to Windows 7 yet?

 

[renau1g]

How does it know if you have ddi? Just curious. I used a different e-mail than my wotc one to sign up.

Off topic - unfortunately, I'm at a huge multi-national firm and having just shelled out the big bucks to get Vista I'm guessing we'll stick with it for a while

 

[evilbob]

It didn't know I had DDI - but when I clicked on the link from any feat/ability/skill/etc., it just took me to what I recognized as the DDI log in page and I had to sign in to see the text. I'm guessing you still had a WotC cookie on your machine? Plus, if you "show only this frame" on the text, you can see it's from the wizards.com site. It's a good idea, really: the only way to avoid getting C&D'd is to just use their own material.

Ultimately, it only allows people who have the character builder to share character builder files with others who have the character builder. It's really nice, tho (and pretty slick for a free browser-based program).

 

[elecgraystone]

That is true, but the question then is who wants or needs to look at the math section?

No, at a minimum that's one judge and one checker who check the sheet. Then you keep saying that GMs need to check it, but I'm not convinced. Is there any GM who has gone on record as needing to see the math, in their role as GM?

It may be that none of the GM's here would be bothered by not being able to look at the math section. I can't speak for them. I'm putting on my 'GM hat' and looking at it from the point of view that if I was GM, would I want to be able to see it? Yes I would.

So if they don't want to be able to see it, then they can vote to allow only CB for the math section.

 

[covaithe]

You can't post the PDF from CB: It includes the power text verbatim without the math being done which is specifically called out by WotC. We do not want to risk ENW being met with C&D letter.

This.

I know its retro, but here's an idea that would totally do away with the wiki. Go old school and just type out the CS like in LEW. With a CS thread and a post for each PC, we could have a standard format that is copy/pastable and people fill in their details from there. Wouldn't have all the nice color effects and boxes of the wiki, but if its simpler and will allow more people to join, then its an idea I'll put out there. It also gets us away from the wiki which is changing or vanishing or whatever in the near (?) future. Anybody got any holes to shoot in this idea? It won't build your character for you like CB, and its still a lot of typing stuff in, but as far as tracking goes it would do the job with less need of wiki coding or knowledge. Or is there some reason I totally missed or forgot about since starting here in L4W that made this a bad idea?

Two big problems with this. First, all current characters need to be typed in again. Pain in the backside. Second, we lose the history of edits to the character sheets, and the ability to compare two versions. I, for one, find that extremely useful.

I'm intrigued by LadyLaw's idea of a program where you can fill in a form that looks like our current sheets, and then press a button and it will generate the wiki code you need. That's got promise, at least as a starting point.

I also find myself thinking... And, I dunno, tell me if I'm out of line on this one... Who cares if it takes an hour to fill in a character sheet? I mean, this is a character that you'll be playing for years, given the pace of PbP. You're going to need to know their mechanics inside and out, every last nit-picky number. You'll spend hours typing in posts in-character, more hours hitting refresh or checking your email to see if you survive the consequences of your actions, and yet more hours (happily, I hope) arguing about rules and mechanics and tactics and and and...
Point is, PbP is not about instant gratification. It's a grind, a long one, and it takes a healthy dose of patience. If you're put off by an hour or two of wrestling with wiki formatting, well, maybe this game isn't for you.
I'm not completely sure I believe the argument in these paragraphs, but... It's crossed my mind more than once, reading this thread.

On the other hand, anything we can do to make it easier for character reviews to happen, without sacrificing accuracy or the ability for DMs to run games without access to DDI, I'm all for.

 

[Kalidrev]

This.



Two big problems with this. First, all current characters need to be typed in again. Pain in the backside. Second, we lose the history of edits to the character sheets, and the ability to compare two versions. I, for one, find that extremely useful.

I'm intrigued by LadyLaw's idea of a program where you can fill in a form that looks like our current sheets, and then press a button and it will generate the wiki code you need. That's got promise, at least as a starting point.

I also find myself thinking... And, I dunno, tell me if I'm out of line on this one... Who cares if it takes an hour to fill in a character sheet? I mean, this is a character that you'll be playing for years, given the pace of PbP. You're going to need to know their mechanics inside and out, every last nit-picky number. You'll spend hours typing in posts in-character, more hours hitting refresh or checking your email to see if you survive the consequences of your actions, and yet more hours (happily, I hope) arguing about rules and mechanics and tactics and and and...
Point is, PbP is not about instant gratification. It's a grind, a long one, and it takes a healthy dose of patience. If you're put off by an hour or two of wrestling with wiki formatting, well, maybe this game isn't for you.
I'm not completely sure I believe the argument in these paragraphs, but... It's crossed my mind more than once, reading this thread.

On the other hand, anything we can do to make it easier for character reviews to happen, without sacrificing accuracy or the ability for DMs to run games without access to DDI, I'm all for.

This! I've been trying not to bash those who complain about the Wiki character creation, but c'mon peoples. You SHOULD know everything about your character. You should be able to look at a power that you have, and understand WHY you have the to hit and damage you do, what stats and feats attributed to that bonus, and any weapons or implements that you own that could change those figures. Why? Because it's YOUR character and you should own it.

I happen to enjoy working on my characters in the Wiki, so my opinion may be a bit biased, but I believe that knowing your character's mechanics is every bit as important as knowing your characters personality. If you're not certain about your character's personality, you can improvise. If you're not sure about your character's mechanics, you have to spend extra time looking it up in a book or other source, make sure that it includes any changes from errata, and THEN do whatever it is you're going to do.

So, in conclusion of my ramblings... know your character...know your roll/role

 

[Phoenix8008]

Covaithe and Kalidrev have pretty much summed it up for me as well. I don't much mind the effort of putting stuff into the wiki. But with the wiki disappearing sometime, we really need another option regardless and if it can be something simpler and easier (which doesn't require me to pay for DDI) then lets see what we can do.

 

[samursus]

My 2 cents.

I have just had my first character approved for L4W (and first PbP char ever).

I had thought of joining before (a year ago or so) but the character generation process really turned me off. And I must admit it did this time too...I guess I just had more time on my hands recently. I have a little bit of programming in my past, so it wasn't too bad for me, but time consuming, wow!!

I agree with the other poster who mentioned making a second character would take a serious decision from myself.

I would imagine many players would be/have been turned off enough by the wiki char building process to just not bother. I know 3/4 of my RL group would never go through that process from choice or inability.

The question is, since some others have expressed they have no problem with things as is, does the community want to expand? If there is a serious need/desire to expand the player base... then I would humbly agree with the others who have said the chargen process needs to change. If there is no such need/desire, then... it is what it is.