PROPOSAL: Allow Non-Kalashtar to "initiate" the conversation...

Kalidrev

First Post
There is a rather fervent (though surprisingly civilized) discussion/argument over the Telepathy Racial Ability of the Kalashtar Race that started HERE (staring at #17).

Here's my proposal:

When a Kalashtar is in a party, any of his allies may initiate the two-way communication part of the Telepathy ability without the Kalashtar having to mentally communicate with the ally first.

Any thoughts? (Pun intended)
 

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stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
By proposing this, Kalidrev cannot vote on it. So its Evo, r1, THB, and myself.

I'll wait for further discussion as always before voting.
 

renau1g

First Post
& Ata if he comes back ;)

I'll also await discussion if people have things to add besides that has been posted in the general discussion area.
 


Kalidrev

First Post
LOL, yeah, I know I can't vote on this proposal, but if it were proposed by someone else, it may have been proposed for the flip-side, and then I would only be voting no so that it WASN'T that way, instead of the proposal being worded my way ;) Of course, someone can easily counter-proposal my proposal, and we'll have to vote on both versions. If that IS the case (and someone counter-proposals an opposition to my proposal), am I allowed to vote on that proposal?
 

CaBaNa

First Post
In my experience Kalidrev's proposal will increase fun. Pok has been playing along with two Kalashtar and the telepathy has been a positive RP element. The ability has been balanced and non-disruptive.
 


KarinsDad

Adventurer
In my experience Kalidrev's proposal will increase fun. Pok has been playing along with two Kalashtar and the telepathy has been a positive RP element. The ability has been balanced and non-disruptive.

In my experience Kalidrev's proposal will decrease fun. Pok has been playing along with two Kalashtar and the telepathy has been a negative RP element. The ability has been unbalanced and disruptive.

From my perspective, Pok has been making minor telepathic digs about Sheeva since she joined the group and since she is not privy to the conversations, I cannot roleplay a proper response.

Since PBP is using the Internet, this hidden conversation capability encourages "nah nah boo boo" type behavior behind people's backs. JME.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
With regard to balance, I consider non-Kalashtar initiated conversation to be unbalanced in combat.

Some people like posting a bunch of suggestions OOC for combat tactics and such and then deciding on their PC's actions. I prefer people posting a bunch of suggestions IC for combat tactics and such. Doing it the other way feels like kibitzing in Chess. There is no roleplaying of PC tactics if OOC tactics are allowed. An entire roleplaying portion of gaming is discarded for the sake of tactically efficiencies.

To me, IC is preferable to OOC. Removing an aspect of tactical roleplaying from combat is inferior to encouraging it.

I also feel that the DM should roleplay NPC IC tactical commands and discussions as well, but that's a different topic in the same vein.


Back to balance, when a non-Kalashtar can initiate a combat tactical conversation behind the backs of the NPCs, it gives the PCs a significant tactical advantage over combats where only the Kalashtar can do so.

The player of the Kalashtar earned the right to do this by taking that race. The players of other PC races did not. They gained other advantages by picking the races they did. They should not gain the advantages that the Kalashtar has, nor should he gain theirs (i.e. a Kalashtar should not be able to use Second Wind as a minor action, just because a Dwarf is in the party). And even the Kalashtar should be limited to telepathically talking to only one or two PCs in a combat round to discuss tactics, not everyone in the group from a balance perspective (without the Group Mind feat).


In regard to Kalidrev's question in the other thread "If a Kalashtar were NOT always listening, then how in the world would the Telepathic Sensitivity feat work?", it seems non-sequitor to the discussion.

The Telepathic Sensitivity feat does not give the Kalashtar surface thoughts (even though people want to roleplay that it does). It's like listening to Mosquitoes. I know they are there cause I can hear them, but I have no clue what they are saying.


So from my perspective, the "Telepathy: You can communicate" vs. the "Group Mind: Any ally can communicate" rules infer (but do not explicitly state) that the Kalashtar initiates, and giving Group Mind capability to non-Kalastar PCs gives a tactical advantage to them in combat that they should not have (without the Group Mind feat being taken). Telepathy is too useful as is, let alone making it more useful.


Handing out most of Group Mind to the non-Kalashtar PCs for free is like giving a +2 to Perception rolls vs. Stealth to all Kalashtars and giving part of Telepathic Sensitivity to them for free. I don't see the difference. To me, the counter argument appears to be "We have been playing it this way and want to keep playing it this way". That doesn't mean it is balanced or the original intent of the rules.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I am chiefly concerned with balance issues. Other issues (such as whether tactics discussions should be IC/OCC/etc.) are meta-issues to be decided in individual groups, preferably guided by DMs (who set the tone for their adventure). Everyone should be able to come to a consensus on these issues.

As for KD's argument of "You can..." vs "Ally can...", it misses the rest of the context of both, chiefly that such communication is two way. Two way indicates both can talk and generally initiate/terminate conversation; have the kalasthar is just necessary for the communication to be feasible. The "one initiator" version of telepathy KD advocates is more like a permanent, repeatable Sending ritual which has very specific language about "receiving" a message and "respond"ing a reply. So, from a rule view point, there is a (small) precedence for open two-way communication between a kalasthar and one PC.

Note, this is not open PC-to-PC coordination. If that is happening, without some time/penalty/etc for doing so without the appropriate feat, that is a balance issue. Free actions such as that should not be abused, and this should be watched by DMs and judges. "Free" does not mean "no time", it just means it is not one of your major actions. This should be similar to the rejecting having paragraphs of dialog in a combat round.

Telepathy is powerful: It is silent and cannot generally be intercepted or interrupted. It is not instantaneous and is only between two parties at a time.
 

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