Proposal - Dragon #365 made legal

[covaithe]

I had trouble downloading the article, either from the link in the first post or by digging through to the magazine archive myself. I can see the individual articles, but not the whole collected issue.

I seem to recall having similar issues when this was first proposed, and thinking that I'd get around to trying again later.

 

[Dunamin]

I think the lack of discussion indicates that nobody really cares much about this article. I only proposed it in the first place because it seemed like a good idea to get it out of the way before moving on to the Warlock article, which in hindsight wasn't necessary at all. So might as well just close the proposal until someone actually wants to make use of something from this issue.

I beg to differ.

If a proposal has been put forward and some of us has taken the time and effort to evaluate it, I'd much rather we just get on with and come to a resolution rather than postpone.

 

[renau1g]

I would have preferred more discussion on this before casting my votes, but proposals are slowly starting to pile up and we have some of the major supplements soon in line: Martial Power and Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide.

So I think a little decisiveness is in order, and many of my opinions on the respective articles remain largely unchanged from my previous post.

NO: Artificer. We don’t have the full package yet, playtest material is subject to change, and the authors have already noted certain changes at the article discussion on the WotC forums that will be made for the final version of the class.

NO: Ecology of the Dragonborn: My main problem is Hurl Breath, which seems like it should clearly have been burst 1 not 2, to not make Enlarge Breath superfluous (the OA risk does not offset the gain for using it at range). The rest of the article doesn’t look too bad, though, so I'm certainly willing to reconsider.

YES: Backdrop: Cormyr: The paragon paths seem fine. Mobility focus and lackluster powers from the Draeven Marauder are not impressive, but are compensated somewhat with Marauder Precision. The Luckbringer of Tymora has a very cool style that matches its concept perfectly; I’m thinking our godly counterpart would be Merkari (Hermes/Mercury).

YES: Expeditionary Dispatches - Dolurrh’s Dawn (Reborn Champion ED): Overall I think its fine; my only offhand concern is the Deeds of Song and Story feature being used in connection with Intimidate to make a bloodied foe automatically surrender. That seems more a problem with abuse of Intimidate in general, though, and I’m sure DMs and Judges will keep games fair in that regard.

NO: Bazaar of the Bizarre – The Treasures of Ashardalon (magic items): The Belt of Mountain Endurance seems overpowered in comparison to a level 22 Belt of Vigor. I’m also concerned about the Ring of the Ghost Knight (though the flavor is very cool) - it provides Minor Action attacks for the rest of the encounter but the damage is pretty low for this level so that might compensate somewhat.

NO: Ampersand – To DM or Not to DM (Swordmage preview): Moot, since swordmages are going to get proposed in full through the FRPG.

I agree with Dunamin on this.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Thanks for resurrecting this, Dunamin. To be honest, I'd completely forgotten that it was ever proposed ...

Anyway, I need to take a better look at the items before casting my vote, so I'll do that tomorrow morning.

 

[Atanatotatos]

I agree with Dunamin. But, what about having Hurl breath be a burst 1 and approving the article?

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Well, here's my votes:

NO: Artificer: Playtest, subject to change, soon to be published, all that jazz.

NO: Ecology of the Dragonborn: I have a problem with Hurl Breath as well. Even if it were burst 1, I think it's too strong. Basically you're giving dragonborn a 1/enc minor action scorching burst for the cost of a feat. If you want that, take Arcane Initiate instead. Dragon Breath is already a great racial power IMO. I also think Adaptable Breath is a little sketchy...

YES: Backdrop: Cormyr: PP's seem fine to me. Pretty much ditto Dunamin, though I thought the Marauder was a bit better than he seems to think.

YES: Dolhurrh's Dawn: Reborn Champion seems fine to me. I think the Intimidate to surrender thing just needs DM discretion, as always.

NO: Bazaar of the Bizarre: Ashardalon's Treasure: Yup, Belt of Mountain Endurance is definitely overpowered compared to Belt of Vigor. Too bad, really - I quite like some of the items in there. Maybe someone can propose a selective lot of them, though with AV pretty much approved it's not like we're short on magic items anymore.

NO: Ampersand - Swordmage Preview: As Dunamin said, this is moot; swordmages in full are likely to be proposed soon.

 

[Ozymandias79]

NO: Artificer:

YES: Ecology of the Dragonborn: I have no problems with the feats but I think it is strange that Hurl Dragonbreath has no synergy with Enlarge Dragonbreath or it hasn't Enlarge Dragonbreath as a prerequisite.
so I got a suggestion: either put Enlarge Dragonbreath as a prerequisite or reduce the burst to 1 and if he takes Enlarge Dragonbreath as a feat it gets enlarged to 2.

YES: Backdrop: Cormyr: ok with me

YES: Dolhurrh's Dawn: ok with me

YES: Bazaar of the Bizarre: Ashardalon's Treasure: Belt of Mountain Endurance compared to Belt of Vigor, well, both Woe and Raiyek are defenders with high strength so I can understand your viewpoints and that your characters would jump after it but I suspect that neither Palindrome, Tander or Atreus (or any other non-strength prioritized character) would take a Belt of Mountain Endurance over a lvl 22 Belt of Vigor.

NO: Ampersand - Swordmage Preview:

 

[Dunamin]

Alright, so it seems the current result is approval of Cormyr and Dolurrh’s Dawn, rejection of Artificer and Swordmage preview, and the remaining articles still waiting to be resolved. I’ll update the charter in a while.

I’m unsure what to do about Hurl Breath (though good thoughts all), but I’ve come around to pretty much the rest of the Ecology of the Dragonborn article. You guys have any further ideas for a compromise on how it could work? Otherwise, I’m thinking of just proposing that article with the exclusion of the feat.

Could others (judge or not) weigh in on their opinion as well?

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I'm not sure what can be done with Hurl Breath ... I mean, it basically gives Dragonborn a 1/enc use of Scorching Burst, but with a minor action. I've already stated my opinion on that. I don't really see much problem with the rest of the article. I'm a little wary of Breath Admixture and those type of feats, but I guess they're for a relatively low-damage encounter power.

As for the treasure article, I still don't like the Belt of Mountain Endurance. It gives the benefit of the Belt of Vigor (and possibly a higher bonus, depending on the character), plus an additional power, and is 4 levels lower. If it just had the power and not the property, I'd be OK with it.

As far as I'm concerned, proposing those two articles with the feat and item removed would go through without a hitch.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

I'm not sure what can be done with Hurl Breath ... I mean, it basically gives Dragonborn a 1/enc use of Scorching Burst, but with a minor action. I've already stated my opinion on that. I don't really see much problem with the rest of the article. I'm a little wary of Breath Admixture and those type of feats, but I guess they're for a relatively low-damage encounter power.

How changing Hurl Breath to use a standard action instead of a minor? (So if you take this feat you can use your breath normally as a minor, or hurl it as a standard.)