(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

[GnomeWorks]

Well, assuming that we start over with approvals/vetoes with each revision , that's one out of three...

 

[Knight Otu]

Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any one living creature within 30 feet. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be affected as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 16th). An enslaved creature obeys the aboleth’s telepathic commands until freed by remove curse, and can attempt a new Will save every 24 hours to break free. The control is also broken if the aboleth dies or travels more than 1 mile from its slave. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Would that be the correct "bluification"?

Aboleth’s Enslave
Universal [Blue]
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet (see text)
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Learned From: Aboleth - Enslave
Spell Slot Cost: 16 - LL / 7
The victim is affected as though by a dominate person spell. It obeys the caster’s telepathic commands until freed by remove curse, or the duration runs out. The control is also broken if the caster dies or travels more than 1 mile from its slave.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Would that be the correct "bluification"?

Aboleth’s Enslave
...

Yes, that would be.

Anything with a permanent duration (or an unlisted one) becomes a duration of 1 round/level. That's just how long the spell lasts, though... so, a blue spell that causes petrification is usable for that long, but the effects it has (petrifying someone) would last until fixed.

I'd call it "Enslave - Aboleth", but I guess that's mostly a personal preference.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Neato

I only just came across your project here, and I have to say that I REALLY like this. I've only just skimmed the details, though, so I don't really understand the spell level cost in casting blue magic, so I'm going to go back an look at that more closely. Anyway, neat concept, and it looks like you've already put in some impressive work and thought on this. Thanks for sharing.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I only just came across your project here, and I have to say that I REALLY like this. I've only just skimmed the details, though, so I don't really understand the spell level cost in casting blue magic, so I'm going to go back an look at that more closely. Anyway, neat concept, and it looks like you've already put in some impressive work and thought on this. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks!

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

All right, that's fairly straightforward, then. The next thing I'm thinking is how I wouold incorporate this with the Unearthed Arcana Fatigue-limited Spell Point system I've adopted for Sorcerers. One of the Chief strengths, I think, of blue magic, is that all of one's low-level spell slots need not go to waste. With spell points, this is never an issue, but I think that even in a spell point game there might be room for a concept this cool.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Still need two approval votes...

 

[Creamsteak]

The Learner, v5

LEARNER (Blue Mage)
The learner – sometimes called a ‘blue mage’, for their practice – is perhaps one of the more eccentric occupations available in the world. Unlike any other group, the learners gain their abilities not from training or knowledge, but from experiencing them at the hands of monsters.

Ok, I still don't like the referneces to "colored" magics, which would imply that there are other "colors" of magic. I don't really like that, however, I could see there being the "circle of six" which represents 6 specialized prestige classes (white, black, red, blue, green, and yellow perhaps.) Even with that "fluff" transposition, I'm still not certain, but at least in that form it would give blue magic a meaning.

What is a blue mage? That is hard to say.

Just being a bastard, but that's not a very good way to start off.

There is no such thing as an archetypal learner, for each one is different. Each comes to the art of blue magic in their own ways, and each studies it in their own fashion. Though they are far different from each other, they share one common bond... the desire to research and learn more.

NPC learners are usually found in areas rich in monsters, looking for new blue spells to learn.

Hrm... I'd be a bit more detailed into these differences. Something akin to, "While most learners study more 'common' or 'simple' creatures such as animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids, there are many learners that focus on obscure aberrations, deadly dragons, and summoned outsiders."

I think you could really develop what the "differences" between learners are, and what makes some more like adventurers. Also, because they are learning something about the biology of a monster is such a way that they USE the biology, I could see how they "become" the monster somewhat, so I used that as a basis here.

Hit Die: d6.

I'd prefer a d4 class that was really a hardcore spellcaster, but that's me. I'm fine with this.

REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a learner, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
BAB: +4.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 6 ranks.
Feats: Endurance.
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast at least 2nd-level arcane spells.

I don't like the base attack bonus prerequisite or the spontaneously casting... or well... I guess I don't like any of this anymore. Here's my idea, for a bit more versatility in the build but focusing more on the arcane side,

Skills: Spellcraft 6 ranks, and at least 6 ranks in two of the following skills, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Nature), or Knowledge(The Planes).
Feats: Skill Focus in at least two of the following: Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Nature), or Knowledge(The Planes).
Spells: The ability to cast the Alter Self spell or use Alter Self as a spell-like ability.

*You could substitute Alter Self for Polymorph I guess.
**Extra cool idea, would be to also include the psionic equivelents of Alter Self/Polymorph. Making this class more universal as it were.

CLASS SKILLS
The learner’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowlege (The Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier

Meh... I'd say that for a knowledge (and very skill) oriented class, I would use 2 + intel modifier skills. And I would go so far as to allow "Knowledge (all skills taken individually) as the type.

[color=white][b]TABLE L-1: THE LEARNER

			Fort	Will	Ref
Lvl	BAB		Save	Save	Save	Special			Spells Per Day[/b]
1	+0		+0	+2	+0	Observation, Lore,	+1 level of existing class
						Lancelet 1/day			
2	+1		+0	+3	+0	Peep			+1 level of existing class
3	+2		+1	+3	+1				
4	+3		+1	+4	+1	Conversion		+1 level of existing class
5	+3		+1	+4	+1	Lancelet 2/day		+1 level of existing class
6	+4		+2	+5	+2	Scan		
7	+5		+2	+5	+2				+1 level of existing class
8	+6		+2	+6	+2	Resistance		+1 level of existing class
9	+6		+3	+6	+3				
10	+7		+3	+7	+3	Continual Learning,	+1 level of existing class
						Lancelet 3/day[/color]

I'll leave this be. I might have comments about the specials though. And I still hate reading the word Lancelet.

CLASS FEATURES
All the following are class features of the learner prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Learners gain no new proficiencies.

When in light armor, a learner does not suffer from arcane spell failure when casting spells with the Blue descriptor.

K.

Spells per Day (1st/2nd/4th/5th/7th/8th/10th levels): At the indicated levels, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of learner to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

I'd go with 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th. Same number of levels, but comes out slightly less frontloaded-ish. I know that's not a big deal with this class, but I would want to encourage the player to "get over the hump" earlier, the hump being the first level where you don't get a casting benefit.

If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before he became a learner, he must decide to which class he adds each level of learner for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Blue Spells: In addition to his normal arcane spells, the learner also gains the ability to learn spells with the Blue descriptor. These are special spells that are learned from observing or being subject to monster abilities (see Observation, below).

A learner can know a number of blue spells equal to his Intelligence score + his learner level. At every second learner level, he can lose a known blue spell to make room for an "unlearned" blue spell (see Observation, below).

I'm being d20 pedantic here, but using Intelligence Score as the reference just doesn't seem right to me. How about just the learner level? Ten unique monsters spell like abilities have a pretty high power curve, when used right, and I don't see the need to have upwards of 20 of them. Compare this to a psion who knows, what, 30 spells total? I'd like to keep this at 10 for 10 levels, you could still optimize them and pick out 10 really awesome exceptional/supernatural/spell-like qualities. Sorcerers also get so few spells, so I don't think increasing there maximum so hugely would be right.

To cast a blue spell, a learner must expend spell slots whose total spell level equals the spell slot cost of the blue spell [the spell slot cost is described below]. (0th-level spell slots count as 1/2 level for purposes of casting blue spells).

I've got an idea on how to re-build this to work with both psionics and magic, but I'd need to take the time to construct it. It would be two alternate tables, but the basic idea would remain teh same.

Observation: The primary way that a learner learns blue spells is through observation. As a standard action, a learner can watch the creatures within Close range (25 feet + 5 feet/2 learner levels). If any of them should use an Su or Sp ability until the learner’s next action, the learner may attempt to learn the blue spell associated with that ability.

Ok, I don't like using spell range increments along with a non-spell action. I'd just say, "60 feet." Also, I think *certain* exceptional abilities could legitimately be allowed.

In order to learn the blue spell, the learner must make a Knowledge check against the Su or Sp ability’s saving throw DC. If it doesn’t have one, the DC to learn the ability is 10 + one-half the monster’s HD + the monster’s Charisma modifier (if the modifier is less than +0, it is considered +0 for purposes of learning). If the learner succeeds, he learns the blue spell associated with that ability, so long as he has not learned his maximum number of blue spells.

I was thinking that this works a bit backwards. I don't like the formula, but what bothers me more is the "less than +0 == +0" bit, and the saving throw/no saving throw bit. There's got to be a better way to work that out. Also, knowledge checks versus saving throw DCs is obtuse. One scales much faster than the other. I was thinking that a better way to do this would be to have the DCs set by the Blue Spell Level as a flat req, more on that later.

The specific Knowledge check depends upon the type of the monster the ability is being learned from.

[color=white][b]TABLE L-2: KNOWLEDGE CHECKS
Knowledge (...)		Monster Types[/b]
Arcana			constructs, dragons, magical beasts, undead
Dungeoneering		aberrations, oozes
Nature			animals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, 
			plants, vermin
The Planes		elementals, outsiders[/color]

I'm cool with that, as it's part of what I like.

If he does not have an available blue spell slot, he can still learn the spell, though it remains an "unlearned" blue spell until he does so. To learn the spell, he must swap out a blue spell (see Blue Spells, above). A learner can only retain a single "unlearned" blue spell at a time, and if he would have two "unlearned" blue spells, he must choose which one he will retain. Such "unlearned" blue spells are not on his spells known list and therefore cannot be cast.

I just realized that calling them "blue spell slots" is really hard to figure around. Actually, this mechanic might need to go.

If the learner fails, he does not gain the spell. However, the next time he attempts to learn that spell in the same combat, he gets a +1 competence bonus on his Knowledge check to learn the spell for each time he has failed.

If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability while observing, he gets a +4 bonus on the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

If the learner is observing, and a monster currently affected by Lancelet uses an Su or Sp ability, the learner gets a +4 bonus to the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability by a monster currently affected by Lancelet while observing, the learner gets a +8 bonus to the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

This is all getting ugly and ill-conceived looking.

[qutoe]Lore: Learners are well-versed in the nature of monstrosities. As such, he may make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to his learner level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information concerning a monster or blue magic.

[color=white][b]TABLE L-3: LORE
DC	Type of Knowledge			Examples[/b]
10	Common, known by at least a		The existence of lycanthropes; more
	substantial minority of the local	common blue spells.
	population.
20	Uncommon but available, known		The nature of angels and eladrins;
	by only a few people in the area.	unusual blue spells.
25	Obscure, known by few, hard to		The history of a race of monsters; 
	come by.				powerful blue spells.
30	Extremely obscure, known by		The history of an ancient, lost race;
	very few.				blue spells learned from extinct species.[/color]

[/quote]

I don't like your examples... they seem too low in DC to actual rarity relation.

A successful lore check will not reveal the powers of a magic item related to blue magic but may given a hint as to its general function. A learner may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

A learner can make a Lore check to determine what blue spells can be learned from a given monster; the DC is equal to 10 + the monster’s HD.

Hrm... not sure what I think of this.

Lancelet: As a ranged touch attack, a learner can magically tag a monster; the monster must be within Close range (25 feet + 5 feet/2 learner levels) and the learner must succeed at a ranged touch attack. This arcane tool allows the learner to learn any Su or Sp abilities the monster uses while it is affected by the Lancelet, regardless of its distance from the learner. In order to use the Lancelet, the learner must expend a spell slot of any level; the Lancelet lasts for 1 round + 1 round/spell level. Each round the creature is affected, it may make a Fort save against a DC of 10 + learner level + learner's Wisdom modifier to cancel the effects of the Lancelet, negating it.

Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the Lancelet from affecting it.

This ability is usable once per day at 1st level, and once more per day every five levels after that (twice a day at 5th, three times a day at 10th, etc).

If the learner is observing, and a monster currently affected by Lancelet uses an Su or Sp ability, the learner gets a +4 bonus to the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability by a monster currently affected by Lancelet, he gets a +4 bonus on the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

If the learner is attacked with an Su or Sp ability by a monster currently affected by Lancelet while observing, the learner gets a +8 bonus to the Knowledge check to learn that ability.

I hate this. It's too many bonuses to something so finite, and I don't like the mechanic or thematic elements of the Lancelet.

Peep (2nd level): The learner gains the ability to judge an opponent’s or monster’s capabilities. As a standard action, the learner makes a Sense Motive check, opposed by the target’s Bluff check. If the learner succeeds, he determines the target’s current BAB, AC, and hit points. If the learner fails, he cannot attempt to use this ability on that opponent again for the rest of that day.

I don't mind spells that allow you to know something's hp (like Status, that's the spell in the PHB that lets you track an ally's HP, right?), but to claim that you can KNOW it from a sense motive check (opposed by bluff) seems video-gamish in a bad way. Something less meta-game related would be better. And the name, Peep, seems pretty boring. I'd rather there be a distance extention to the learning range or something.

Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Peep on it.

Conversion (4th level): The learner has mastered the art of converting his arcane energy into a shield to enable him to survive the abilities of monsters. In effect, he gains a DR equal to his Wisdom modifier. Each time this DR prevents damage, he loses spell slots whose total spell level is equal to the amount of damage the DR prevented (0th level spells count as half a level); the learner chooses the spell slots he expends in this way. If the learner has no spell slots of a level higher than 0th, he loses this DR. Each time he is dealt damage, the learner chooses whether or not to activate this ability.

Very cool. Not worded quite right, but this makes sense. I *think* I saw a feat like that somewhere, but it may have been epic. This works for me though.

A learner suffers no adverse effects from losing spell slots in this way.

Unnecessary statement I suppose.

Scan (6th level): The learner has become adept at judging his opponents and monsters. As a standard action, the learner makes a Sense Motive check, opposed by the target’s Bluff check. If the learner succeeds, he determines the target’s current BAB, current and max hit points, AC, current saving throw bonuses, and any spells the target is currently affected by. If the learner fails, he cannot attempt to use this ability or Peep on that opponent again for the rest of that day.

Not, getting, it. So similar to peep, and also taking a step further to know what "affects" the target is undergoing. Now, something that allowed the learner to sense affects as in (stunned, fatigued, exhausted) etc. would indeed be useful. However, the way this deals with this (sense motive by bluff) is something I don't like.

Effects that prevent the creature from being scryed also prevent the learner from using Scan on it.

Resistance (8th level): The learner begins to become more resistant to conditions that would impede him and his ability to learn. He gains a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws against the following conditions: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned.

Unusual, but I can see it working out. The wording of "saving throws agaisnt the following conditions" should probably be worded a bit differently, since most saves are versus spells, not the affects of the spell (for instance, you save vs. confusion (the spell), not confused (the affect).

Continual Observation (10th level): The learner has mastered the art of being continually alert. He is now considered observing at all times, and he does not need to take a standard action to observe; however, the maximum range for continual observation is 5 feet/2 learner levels.

The learner can still observe as a standard action.

Meh. I don't know what to think.

Blue Spells
Gaining a blue spell is detailed in Observation, above.

Casting a Blue Spell
All blue spells take a standard action to cast. During the casting process, the learner chooses what spell slots to expend; the total spell level of the spell slots expended must be equal to or greater than the spell slot cost of the blue spell.

A blue spell is the exact same ability as the ability the monster it was learned from used. For instance, the mind blast cast by a learner who learned it from an illithid will function exactly like the illithid's mind blast ability. Only (Su) and (Sp) abilities can be learned as blue spells; however, Sp abilities can only be learned if the ability's entry's name is "<Ability Name> (Sp)", and they cannot be learned if they are listed under "Spell-like Abilities", "Spells", or "Psionics" (for example, a mind flayer's mind blast or an aasimar's daylight ability can be learned, as they are listed as "Mind Blast (Sp)" and "Daylight (Sp)"). In addition, the learner cannot learn blue spells that summon creatures (for example, a learner cannot learn summon tanar'i or summon slaad).

All blue spells have a Somatic component; blue spells that deal with sonic energy also have a Verbal component. No blue spells have a Material component. If the monster created the effect using a specific item (a grig's Fiddle, a trumpet archon's Trumpet), the learner must have taken that item from the monster, and requires it as an Arcane Focus for the spell.

Blue spells that do not have a definite duration listed in their description, or that are continuously active, last for 1 round/caster level when cast. If the monster's ability is dependent upon the monster doing something (a frost worm's trill), then the learner must concentrate on the spell to maintain its effect. If the monster can only use a certain ability a certain number of times per day, or if it must wait to use it again (a dragon's breath weapon, a tiefling's darkness), the learner ignores these restrictions.

All blue spells count as having a spell level equal to the learner's learner level - 1. Spell level only affects a blue spell's saving throw DC; it is also used for purposes of spells that reflect or negate spell levels, such as globe of invulnerability or spell turning.

If a blue spell has an effect that is based upon the monster's HD, use the learner's caster level as his HD.

If a blue spell has a specific range listed in its description, the learner uses that range; otherwise, all blue spells have a range of Close (25 feet + 5 feet/2 caster levels). If a monster's ability originates from the monster itself (a mind flayer's mind blast, a frost worm's trill), then the blue spell has a range of Personal. Blue spells that depend upon touch or an attack have a range of Touch.

If a blue spell allows for a saving throw, the learner sets the saving throw at 10 + blue spell's effective spell level + the learner’s Charisma modifier.

If a blue spell has a condition to be used that the learner could not meet (a bralani's whirlwind blast, a lycanthrope's curse of lycanthropy), he ignores such restrictions; however, if the ability depends upon a certain attack form, however, the learner must still attack the target (a lycanthrope's curse of lycanthropy requires an attack with a certain attack form of a hybrid or animal form of the lycanthrope; when the learner uses curse of lycanthropy, he does not need to be in the animal or hybrid form or use the attack form mentioned, but he must still make an attack).

All blue spells are arcane spells that are part of the Universal school. All blue spells that directly affect creatures allow for Spell Resistance.

A blue spell's spell slot cost is determined as follows.

[color=white][b]TABLE L-4: SPELL SLOT COST
Step	Formula[/b]
1	CR
2	(Monster's Charisma - CR) - (Learner's Learner Level - 1)
	Only if greater than CR; minimum cost is CR
3	Caster Level - (Learner's Learner Level - 1)
	Only if greater than Step 2; minimum cost is CR[/color]

Blue spells cannot be countered. Blue spells are affected as normal spells by dispel magic and anti-magic field, as well as similar spells.

To apply metamagic spells to a blue spell, you must expend spell slots whose spell level equals the spell levels added to the spell (for instance, to quicken a blue spell, you must expend additional spell slots whose total spell level equals 4).

Blue spells cannot be used to make standard magic items.

Blue Spell Examples
Below are listed several examples of what a blue spell would look like, as well as how they would function. For spell slot costs, notation is (base cost - [learner level - 1] / minimum cost).

I strongly dislike most of this. Especially the use of a formula based on CR over a list akin to the spell lists in the Player's handbook. I'm still a proponent of that system over some arbitrary (and often wrong one way or another) formula. Worst of all, CR is a horrible factor for this. CR is so obscure and situation dependant, that I can't see it's relevance. Imagine, a 400 hit diced creature with a weak supernatural ability to see invisible creatures. If it's CR was 50 or something, that wouldn't work. I know I'm picking a far ranging point, but I'm just trying to show that the two are not correlated.

 

[azmodean]

Just read through the thread, really interesting stuff here.
I know you probably don't want to hear about anything this fundamental after so many revisions, so ignore away if you want.
How about dropping the whole spell level thing and having the learner learn the abilities as at will supernatural or spell-like abilities(like the warlock)? You would still want to determine the spell level of the ability to decide wether the learner is powerfull enough to learn a given ability though. The character would be able to learn one ability every other level or so, and you don't have to worry about keeping track of levels/day.

A seperate issue I have been thinking about, is there really any reason to keep the learner from swapping out powers any time they wish? Doing this with a sorceror or wizard would be somewhat unbalanced as they could build a library of scrolls and fine-tune their spells known quickly, but the learner would not have the same luxury as they have to find a monster to learn the ability from. (plus, the scenario I like the most with the learner is this: fighting some monster, monster uses ability to devastating effect, then learner nabs the ability and uses it to turn the tables on the monster)

 

[Rae ArdGaoth]

A lot of work and improvements have gone into this PrC. I'd hate to see all that go to waste. Unless GnomeWorks has abandoned it? Perhaps he's just taking his sweet time on the next, perhaps final, version? I hope so.