Proposal: Minotaur - MM, (Dragon,) PH3 - which one(s) allow for L4W

[covaithe]

YES to that. What fluff do you mean? The greek island business?

 

[renau1g]

Yeah, something like that.

 

[Kalidrev]

I vote YES to having the player choose between the Oversized Minotaur WITHOUT feat support OR the non-oversized Minotaur WITH feat support, etc.

I really like the idea of a Greek island for this, too!

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Ugh. I'd favor any proposal that leads to oversized weapons getting phased out!

And Booh! to anything that keeps them in.

What's wrong with saying that the PHB3 minotaur is the official minotaur and asking active players to make the modifications?

I've just had my Life Transference power adjusted from encounter to daily. I don't see how that's any different.

 

[renau1g]

Because that is an official errata as put out by WoTC, which according to the Charter is automatically accepted. The Monster Manual errata makes no mention of the minotaur "losing" the oversized quality.

"Official updates as published here are approved immediately." - Charter

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJan2010.pdf - link to most recent errata

"Weapons with the Brutal property cannot be used in conjunction with the Oversized feature" - I think the oversized weapons are only really crazy when used in conjunction with this, which we disallow.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I am pretty sure anything published in Dragon Magazine overrules the Monster Manuals. Minotaurs and gnolls, for example, take their cue from Dragon Magazine, not MM. Check the CB (no oversized weapon). And in that sense, the MM Minotaur has long been errataed. I presume a minotaur in PHB3 will then overrule the Dragon's minotaur.

 

[renau1g]

Again, there is no official errata, the MM was not errata'd to say, remove the entry from Page X and replace it with Dungeon Magazine article X.

Some players don't have DDI therefore they have only 1 option of the minotaur, the MM version. We can't force them into something they don't have access to. Everyone has access to the errata right? So if in March/April the errata comes out that says the MM entry for the Minotaur under player options has been changed to the PHB3 one then I will support the change.

 

[elecgraystone]

Why don't we kill two birds with one stone and add bugbears in there too? That way when and if they gets updates we don't have to make another proposal. That's also let people people that have them know their character is safe from nerfing.

As far as oversized and brutal, it's only one weapon that brutal gets better. In others it in fact it gets WORSE. Take craghammer a jump from d10 to d12 means brutal triggers less often. With a quick scan, only the executioners axe is an offender with it's d12 turned to 2d6. This could easily be fixed by changing the die of an oversized executioners axe to a d14 and then all weapons would get worse if they are brutal and oversized. Quite honestly I don't know why this wasn't done instead of banning the combo.

As far as MM vs dragon. The issue is that if someone had every official book with errata, the only official minotaur is the MM one. As such, there would need to ba an errata of the MM to alter it. Without DDI access that's all you'd ever know. And that leads into everyone NEEDING ddi access...

As for as just making everyone have to use PH3 minotaurs... I have mixed feelings on this. I am NOT a fan of the MM minotaur. Some of the feats aren't bad but what you got instead of oversized was like a swift kick to a sensitive part of the body...

However I'd normally say a book update should void earlier book rules... If I HAD to vote, I'd go for the 2 minotaur option. I hate the new minotaur enough to let it slide.

 

[Nebten]

You don't need DDI to get errata. That is free on the WotC website.

 

[renau1g]

Correct and according to the latest errata there's no errata to the minotaur (or bugbear for that matter) in the MM section removing that option, or the oversized portion.