I didn't see any of that in the 4e core books or PoL setting. Then I bought the Underdark book and got to the Torog stuff... ~*eeww!*~
D&D 4E PROPS TO PAIZO – On How Pathfinder feels (more like) D&D (to me) than 4E
I didn't see any of that in the 4e core books or PoL setting. Then I bought the Underdark book and got to the Torog stuff... ~*eeww!*~
I think that 3e has some mechanics that are better than 4e, or has assumptions that I enjoy more than 4e. I also think the same thing about 1e vs. 3e, or 2e vs. 4e or anything in between.
I never got all excited about defining D&D by its subsystems though. I think "I want to play a wizard" not "I want to play a wizard that learns X,Y,Z spell X number of times a day, because that feels like a wizard to me".
I frankly, have difficulty in understanding people that do.
I never got all excited about defining D&D by its subsystems though. I think "I want to play a wizard" not "I want to play a wizard that learns X,Y,Z spell X number of times a day, because that feels like a wizard to me".
I frankly, have difficulty in understanding people that do.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
You may want to look into The Book of Tobit (in the Old Testament), Asmodeus was not a nice spirit when it first appeared. Misogyny was definitely among those sins that he embodied.I expect she has a fetishistic BDSM relationship with Asmodeus... But only 'off-stage'.
I could go on at length, but I want to keep clear of the too much religion rule.
More of a user of Ashtaroth in games, any devil that claims to still be working Heaven's Will is likely to have some surprises....
The Auld Grump
D&D is many versions, many modes, many styles of story-telling, many ways of being both a hero and a villain. There may be maps. There may be minis. There may be many rules or hardly any. There may be clear cut good guys or a million shades of grey. There may be magic everywhere or magic only spoke of in whispers. There may be a thousand speaking races or only one. You may travel across a thousand worlds or never leave your small plot. There may be hope and joy undimmed or only sorrow and darkness in a land desperate for heroes.
D&D is legion. And I like it that way.
What binds together all the different ways of playing D&D and the many other roleplaying games that exist in this world of ours is unfettered imagination.
There is no telling what a PC or a GM will do.
Ah, magic!
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled" -- Plutarch
D&D is legion. And I like it that way.
What binds together all the different ways of playing D&D and the many other roleplaying games that exist in this world of ours is unfettered imagination.
There is no telling what a PC or a GM will do.
Ah, magic!
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled" -- Plutarch
TheAuldGrump
First Post
For me part of that 'I want to play a Wizard' comes down to the balance between versatility and preparation. My short stint with 4e did not have either element, to speak of.
The Auld Grump
* I heard a rumor that part of the reason the movie The Sorcerer's Apprentice was made was because Nicholas Cage actually said 'I want to play a wizard'. I can respect that.
Alarian
First Post
I know it's different for everyone, but I've been playing since 1977 and in addition to playing every version of D&D (I have been in two weekly 4th edition games for the past two years), I've played countless other systems as well. From Merps, DragonQuest, Tunnels and Trolls, Pathfinder just to name a few, and for me. In all the years of playing and all the different systems I've played, I've always felt like I was playing "D&D". But... To me, for the first time ever, when I play/played 4th edition I no longer felt like I was playing D&D. It felt like I was playing something else. For me, 4th removed the magic from the game and replaced it with a set of rules. Those rules may make for a solid game, but they no longer felt magical anymore. When I look at my character sheet of two years now, I don't see "Tomaris Longthorn, mighty Warrior", I see 5 pages full of Dailies, Encounters, and At-wills. It's the first time in my life where I have not become even a little invested in my character. If he were to die tomorrow, I honestly wouldn't care. Before this, I would have done almost anything to save a character from death. A few sessions ago we came across a modified Deck of Many Things, and I drew Talons. The effect was I lost the ability to use Magic Items of any sort. The reality of this in pre-4.0 would have been terrible (as the card should be). For me? who cares. Magic items are almost worthless anyway and it had no real negative effect on my character. I lost a few dailies that I rarely used anyway. Another player drew The Void (his soul is imprisoned leaving his body as an automaton). His reaction to losing a character of two+ years of playing? "Hand me the players handbook and let me roll up a new character. I've always wanted to play a Dwarven Paladin."
The second campaign just wrapped up a month ago and as we talked about what to do next Pathfinder came up. When it was voted on and decided we would switch to Pathfinder, several of the players actually started cheering! I was surprised. Even more surprising, last week after we finished playing in the 4th edition group the GM commented that he was thinking of converting his campaign over to Pathfinder as well. That was anothe shocker as he has said many times in the past how much better he liked the ease of prep and the online tools for 4th.
Where am I going with this? I don't know. Just that I agree I guess that Pathfinder feels more like D&D to both myself and my small group than 4th does.
The second campaign just wrapped up a month ago and as we talked about what to do next Pathfinder came up. When it was voted on and decided we would switch to Pathfinder, several of the players actually started cheering! I was surprised. Even more surprising, last week after we finished playing in the 4th edition group the GM commented that he was thinking of converting his campaign over to Pathfinder as well. That was anothe shocker as he has said many times in the past how much better he liked the ease of prep and the online tools for 4th.
Where am I going with this? I don't know. Just that I agree I guess that Pathfinder feels more like D&D to both myself and my small group than 4th does.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
The thing is that an awful lot of us don't play D&D (4e) when we want to play D&D, because D&D (4e) doesn't feel like D&D to us anymore.
For us, Pathfinder is more D&D than D&D (4e) is. Pathfinder is what I play when I want to play D&D. Mind you, I call the version of D&D that I play Pathfinder, but I also don't play 4e at all.
The result is that outside of bulletin boards I don't use the term D&D at all, anymore.
The Auld Grump
Crothian
First Post
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