Protection from Evil curiosity

[tburdett]

Spoken like a true player, not a DM attemptng to maintain game balance.

That one item would not unbalance a game that much. It would have been very easy to minimize the impact that the ring would have on the campaign.

a) How hard would it have been to gradually replace the creatures that would have been weakened by the rings abilities with creatures that would not have been weakened? Not very hard. And if done subtly, over a period of time, there would have been no hard feelings.

As a DM you have to be willing to admit, even if only to yourself, that you have made a mistake. Own up to it. You screwed this up. The way that this was handled was bound to cause hard feelings, and it did.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Dumb. DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB.

snip

Good lord, WoTC.

Honestly, you're aiming your rant at the wrong person. You are the one who let him have a permanent protection from evil ring! What were you thinking of!?!

The immunity to charm is an important, nay VITAL element in a casters arsenal against all those dominating and charming creatures that come your way before you reach 16th level and can learn mind blank.

There is no problem with the spell. You created an item, then nerfed it because you hadn't thought through what you were doing. I don't blame the player for being annoyed, it sounds like you stiffed him properly.

 

[Sejs]

Just as an aside, I'm curious:

How many DMs in here, given the following situation, how would you interpret it?

Character leaves the party, and casts Protection from evil on himself, and wades into a pool of water to see what he can see.

While there, an aboleth dominates him.

Do you allow it, or not?


What does your instinct tell you?

I'd roll his will save in secret, and this is assuming he fails it, would have the aboleth hide and wait. Prot from Evil against Domination is a temporary solution, and Aboleth are smart, they'll be patient. Sometime during the several days that the Dominate effect is 'waiting in the wings', that protection is going to fail. At which point the aboleth gets control.


The Aboleth's ability isn't as cool as a straight up Dominate Person anyway. The subject gets a new save each day (unlike DP which only gets a new save if you fail to concentrate for at least 1 round that day) and has a max range of 1 mile (unlike DP which has unlimited range once established).

 

[Kyramus]

From the SRD3.5:
This spell wards a creature from attacks by evil creatures, from mental control, and from summoned creatures. It creates a magical barrier around the subject at a distance of 1 foot. The barrier moves with the subject and has three major effects.
First, the subject gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves. Both these bonuses apply against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures.
Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.
Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.


Suggestion. This spell was not meant to be permanent. SO Whenever she is being dominated by someone, have the PROT from EVIL kick in. What level was the permanency created? The spell has a 1 min/level. If there is no known level, then minimum level of permanency is 9. So when dominate person is cast on the pc, have prot from evil take effect for 9 minutes. They have 9 minutes to try and kill the creature, if they fail, after 9 minutes, pc has to make a saving throw or be dominated as per dominate person spell with a duration of 1day/level.

I really think that's fair. The other two are effects are still ok. The prevents bodily contact still doesn't mean that the creatures can't use weapons to bash them or something. OF course if the PC were the kind of person that attacks the warded creature, then that protection is gone leaving just the ac/save protection left.

I hope this solution is more viable. I could just see someone cast Dominate person and teleport away and scry to see if the spell works. hehehe.

 

[The Souljourner]

Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any one living creature within 30 feet. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be affected as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 16th).

Why would you think this is psionic?

"It despises all nonaquatic creatures and attempts to destroy them on sight." Usually evil? I'd say so. If it weren't evil, it wouldn't have attacked unless it was defending itself. Usually evil means you can occasionally have the Drizzt-like exception (Drow are also usually evil).

The spell does what it says it does. If I were in that situation I'd think "hmm... he's lucky he cast prot evil... I guess the aboleth will just swim down there and kick his scrawny little butt."

-The Souljourner

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

die_kluge,

I am a player. You sound like a reasonable and fairminded DM with a good attitude. But in this particular case, you goofed.

There is nothing wrong with the spell as is except it translates peculiarly into a permenant item. Blocking mental control is a necessity in some scenarios or Magic Jar becomes an easy TPK against parties without escape magic.

 

[der_kluge]

Hell, we have all made bogus mistakes as DMs. Don't sweat it. So he lost a level - cry me a river.....

Another house rule. He lost a point of con.

 

[der_kluge]

Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any one living creature within 30 feet. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be affected as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 16th).

Why would you think this is psionic?

From the Monster Manual:
"Aboleths also use their psionic abilities to enslave individuals for use against their own companions."

pg. 8., three paragraphs above "Combat"; last sentence.

 

[der_kluge]

Well, I certainly didn't intend this thread to be a "bash die_kluge and his bad GM calls", but so be it.

All I'll say is, the spell is not named correctly. Protection from evil should provide defenses against evil, and only evil creatures. Period. Rename the freaking spell if it's going to do more than that.

And I agree that there is a *need* for a low-level protection against domination effects. Just don't squeeze it into the middle of a spell that has no correlation to it. Create a new spell and have it work against everyone.

I still contend that the spell (and all its sister spells) are just poorly designed.

 

[Liquidsabre]

I still contend that the spell (and all its sister spells) are just poorly designed.

I'm going to have disagree here. The spell is "Protection (evil)" it is a protective spell that gives general protection plus extra protection from a specific alignment. It is a great spell that is often overlooked by many, the general protective nature of the spell often underestimated.

This spell does in fact protect against mind control by an Aboleth, but what is done is done. Don't tell me your player is still giving you flack over it die_Kluge?

Crafting a Ring of Protection from Evil is well within the rule set to create isn't it, though a bit cheap at 8k gp, I'd prob bump that up a bit. Sounds like getting one is just a resourceful player that in the shouldn't be punished for a smart tactic. Remember that's a ring-slot taken up that could otherwise be fileld with something potentially much more powerful as those higher levels as well.