Psion to debut in July

[Silverblade The Ench]

So, what are folks thoughts?: )

I'm needing the class to help my Dark Sun campaign, hehe. I've been using the work a fellow kindly posted here on ENWorld for that up till now *tips hat to him!*

I've always liked psionics, at least in concept, but 1ast ed Psionics was a complete bloody nightmare, eek!!

Some people have long disliked psionics, as they feel it's not "medieval fantasy" or not fantasy at all, seeing it as pseudo-science.
Well they may have a point but I don't see why science has no place in D&D as I see alchemy as a blend of pratical science and a dash of magic, esepcially as it goes on in power.
And I've never seen fantasy as HAVING ot be "Medieval europe", and in actual fact, our mythology is a lot more complex than is thought. So there's certainly plenty of room for odd stuff!

3rd ed psionics was good, and bad. It added more variety and balance, as 2nd ed was complex and buggy (hence why I designed my own 2nd ed rules for psionics based off spells in the PHB!!Silverblade in D&D Print! )
but like 3rd ed itself, 3rd ed psionics was way too complex. it's bad neough working out skill points, butthen Power Points...ugh.

Psions also became more artillery than "controllers", and 3rd ed lacked tactics, the push pull slide teleporting of 4th ed is such a wonderful change, it means psions and others don't just have to be "nukers".

I hope some of the fun and odd stuff of the 2nd ed Psionics Handbook is kept, 3rd ed kept most of it but a few bits were lost out iirc.
Psychometabolism is very valid I feel, as monks now = psionics, and it's power over their own bodies!
So powers that enlarge, heal self and so forth all should be cool.

*looking forward to psions!*

 

[Fallen Seraph]

WANTS NOW! *cough*

I am really hoping they keep the terminology and feel of Pseudoscience with the Psion (and other classes to be shown later). It is just such a fun/neat fluff for Psionics that it will be great to have. Especially since my fantasy games always have Pseudoscience (hell... in general I have less fantasy in my fantasy games then anything else (though I think overall Pseudoscience fits better in fantasy then sci-fi)).

As for what I want out of the Psion:

• To be the main Telekenesis user. I could see it also taking some Pyro/Thermokenesis too. But yeah lots of fun shoving around, etc. I wouldn't mind to see perhaps some way to really showcase lifting someone off their feet. I want to really feel like I am turning someone into a rag-doll.
• "Mind Implements", I dunno how to actually implement it but instead of some actual physical object it is something mental. I could see a choice between Disciplined and Undiciplined. Disciplined being focused and precise and Undiciplined by all Carrie style.
• I am hoping for Psionic rituals overall but the Psion getting that as a Class Feature.
• I am wondering if they will try to implement Psionic Combat in any form.
• I think the Psion will be much more focused then in 3rd Edition. With its focus on Telekenesis mainly. Psychometabolism would be going to Monk. Telepathy and such going to Empath, etc.

One thing that isn't specific to Psion that I would like to see:
Mindblades for everyone. It would be a feat tree so every Psionic PC could use Mindblades (in whatever weapon they are trained in) as Weapon/Implements for their Psionic Powers. Plus later feats give special bonuses and what not.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Buh? Psions as just nukers? They could do far more then jujst nuke, my friend . Maybe in 3.0 they were crappy, but 3.5 is, in my opinion, the best Psionics have ever been at! Save for the part where, you know, they were completely abandoned and forgotten

4e psionics is going to be...tricky. The vast majority of people who like psionics, loved 3.5's rendition of them, and very, very strongly want a mechanical difference between them and other types of casters - which simply won't happen in 4e. Most of the people that dislike psionics, well, dislike them. I think 4e is going to be in a really rough spot as far as psionics goes, simply because they're 1) coming out of a psionics system that was, in my opinion, the very avatar of elegence and simplicity, and 2) the vast, vast majority of people who like psionics don't want them to be just a reskinned wizard, and want different game mechanics from how wizards do things to fit the idea of them gaining their power in a radically different way.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Personally for me, the mechanics of Psionics in 3.5 isn't what sold it for me. It was the feel of the abilities and the classes. I think said abilities and such can translate fine over to 4e and Power System. There is enough feel of difference between a Primal, Divine and Arcane classes for supernatural powered classes that I think Psionics will showcase as more then just a reskinned Wizard.

 

[FireLance]

"Mind Implements", I dunno how to actually implement it but instead of some actual physical object it is something mental. I could see a choice between Disciplined and Undiciplined. Disciplined being focused and precise and Undiciplined by all Carrie style.

Oooh, I want Dark Sun-style harbingers: something like a cross between an implement and a ranger's beast companion coupled with a neat visual effect.

So if your harbinger is a hawk, your mental attacks might be more accurate but deal less damage. If your harbinger is a ram, it might be able to push your target an extra square. If your harbinger is a bear, your target might take a penalty to saves against powers that immobilize. And so on.

EDIT: A mind blade could also be a form of harbinger: it requires the target to be adjacent, but would be more accurate or more damaging to compensate.

 

[Dragonhelm]

WANTS NOW! *cough*

Me too!

I am really hoping they keep the terminology and feel of Pseudoscience with the Psion (and other classes to be shown later). It is just such a fun/neat fluff for Psionics that it will be great to have.

I agree. I want to see the psionic disciplines remain somehow. My guess is that the psion may choose between 5-6 disciplines, kind of like how the warlock chooses between pacts. Although, the disciplines may be the foundation for a series of paragon paths.

[*]"Mind Implements", I dunno how to actually implement it but instead of some actual physical object it is something mental. I could see a choice between Disciplined and Undiciplined. Disciplined being focused and precise and Undiciplined by all Carrie style.

I could see psicrystals being used as an implement.

[*]I am wondering if they will try to implement Psionic Combat in any form.

They better! What I'm guessing, though, is that it will take the form of 4e's powers. Attack vs. Will. Which is funny, because that hearkens back to the revised 2e version with MTHAC0 and MAC.

[*]I think the Psion will be much more focused then in 3rd Edition. With its focus on Telekenesis mainly. Psychometabolism would be going to Monk. Telepathy and such going to Empath, etc.

Possibly, though I personally hope to see disciplines as I described above.

One thing that isn't specific to Psion that I would like to see:
Mindblades for everyone. It would be a feat tree so every Psionic PC could use Mindblades (in whatever weapon they are trained in) as Weapon/Implements for their Psionic Powers. Plus later feats give special bonuses and what not.

I'm hoping it's either a power or a feat that gives you a power. Or it could be part of a paragon path. Really, there's no reason a psion shouldn't have mindblades. One of the influences of mindblades was Psylocke from X-Men fame, and back in the day, she used a mindblade as well as other psionic powers.

4e psionics is going to be...tricky. The vast majority of people who like psionics, loved 3.5's rendition of them, and very, very strongly want a mechanical difference between them and other types of casters - which simply won't happen in 4e. Most of the people that dislike psionics, well, dislike them. I think 4e is going to be in a really rough spot as far as psionics goes, simply because they're 1) coming out of a psionics system that was, in my opinion, the very avatar of elegence and simplicity, and 2) the vast, vast majority of people who like psionics don't want them to be just a reskinned wizard, and want different game mechanics from how wizards do things to fit the idea of them gaining their power in a radically different way.

Agreed. My fear is that 4e psionics will be the same as every other power. I always liked the power points/psionic strength points. In fact, I chose the psionicist in 2e just for the simple fact that I could use the same power over and over so long as I had points left.

Plus, it's hard to argue against the great work that Bruce R. Cordell did with Malhavoc's various psionics books. I still want to try out various PrCs from those books!

My guess is that 4e psionics will look like other powers, but maybe include some of the pseudoscience. Not exactly the answer I was hoping for, but alas.

I would also say that the wilder will become a build. The soulknife is probably out since we have the monk as striker. No great loss, IMO, so long as we have either a soulknife paragon path or a mindblade power.

I also imagine the psychic warrior will return to represent the power of psychometabolism (which the monk kind of does too).

So, lessee, what would the classes be?

Controller - Psion
Defender - Psychic Warrior
Leader - Ardent Mind? (forget the exact name)
Striker - Monk (confirmed)

Although...wouldn't it be freaky if the psionic leader was a telepath and used his telepathic abilities to boost his friends and hinder his enemies? He would be a leader, but it would be through manipulation. Of course, that might work with the controller too.

 

[Rechan]

I came to this thread expecting announcements. :|

I recall a podcast where a dev let it slip that the Psionic Leader was called an Empath. It was a toss away comment because he was listing the Leaders, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

My only big want, is psionic rituals, and I do mean seperate rituals keyed off a seperate skill.

When I first saw the rituals I was overjoyed and hoped for Psionic rituals, but now I doubt it will happen. Seeing the design system, and frankly the way WOTC has been treating rituals I suspect Psions will just get arcana training and do the exact same rituals as wizards LAME!



That and I want alot of at-will utilities for mind reading and suched outside of combat.

 

[avin]

I think psionics will be just another source of power, like shadow or primal.

Never been fond of D&D psionics... GURPS Psionics on the other hand are fantastic, able to do all sort of fun tricks that 4E will never allow...

 

[Pbartender]

My only big want, is psionic rituals, and I do mean seperate rituals keyed off a seperate skill.

When I first saw the rituals I was overjoyed and hoped for Psionic rituals, but now I doubt it will happen. Seeing the design system, and frankly the way WOTC has been treating rituals I suspect Psions will just get arcana training and do the exact same rituals as wizards LAME!

How so?

Bards have Bard-specific rituals that no else can use. It's not unlikely that Psions will get the same. It would be interesting to see their rituals use another skill... Endurance, for example.

And remember... Anyone -- even a Fighter or a Rogue -- who takes the Ritual Caster feat can use the basic generic rituals. You don't even need to be trained in the skill.