(Psionic) Ecto Construct

[Scion]

This is mainly in direct response to ecto puppet being a worthless power. This is a higher level, still requires several different powers known to even opperate, and has a pretty fun flavor to it Any ways to make the description more concise? If you think it is overpowered please give a reason and i will respond with my reasoning or change the power accordingly. Thanks!


Ecto Construct (I need a better name for it )
Metacreativity (Int)
Level: Psion 3
Display: Au, Vi (see text)
Manifestation Time: 1 full round
Range: Personal
Effect: An astral construct of the highest level you can manifest
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: Special

This power manifests an astral construct that forms around you as it is created. The construct must be your size category or greater. You directly control its actions and all of its senses become yours. While this power is in effect your body 'floats' inside of the astral construct but you recieve no sensory input from it. You are able to use any applicable feats that you have, all spells that would also effect the construct are transfered from you to it for the duration of the power, and any powers or feats the astral contruct gains you are also able to use. It gains half of your base str and dex (round down) as inherant bonuses to each of its str and dex respectively.

You are still effected normally by most, if not all, will save powers as your consciousness is in the construct. Your new physical form is that of a construct so you are immune to fortitude based spells that cannot effect objects or constructs.

If the spell is ended prematurely (construct is destroyed, dispelled, or other) then the psion is shaken and fatigued for the remaining duration.

Equipment carried and worn by manifestor usually has no effect on the construct.

The power costs an amount of points equal to the highest astral construct you can manifest +2.

 

[Scion]

No psionic lovers out there? Well, I'll bump this once and then forget about it I suppose.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Rather than locking yourself into using it only with the highest AC power you have, I'd make the cost equal to the AC version used + 4.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I agree with Dinkeldog, but he's basing in on Ecto Puppet, which also says you must use your highest AC power. Since no one I know has ever played it that way, though, I don't see a problem with changing it.

It's a nice concept, but there are some questions that need to be asked.

1> Can you be damaged while inside your construct?
2> Does it prevent you from manifesting other powers while inside your construct?

If the answers are "no" to both, then it's a HUGE buffing power. You gain a lot of "buffer" HP, DR, and Natural AC. You gain sizes, which increases both your reach and your land speed. You can gain Fly speed or swim speed. If someone can't attack you separately from your construct, then you're effectively immune to critical hits, subdual damage, ability/energy drain, Charm/Dominate/Hold Person, or most things requiring a Fortitude save.

Even if you don't allow the encapsulated psion to use powers, it's still superior to Tenser's Transformation. Let's compare:

Tenser's (Wizard 6):
+(2*level) HP from increased CON, so +22 to +40; while the rest of the abilities stay when these HP are lost, you have to heal them before the spell wears off or you'll die.
+4 STR, +4 DEX
+4 Natural AC
+7 Fortitude (+2 from the CON, +5 separate)
Martial weapon proficiencies
BAB=level, including extra iterative attacks
Costs a potion.

Ecto Construct (let's take the 6th-level version, using an AC 4 as our shell):
+27 HP (once these are gone, though, the rest of the abilities go away)
STR goes to 25+half mine, DEX goes to 15+half mine
+5 Natural AC, but a -1 to AC thanks to size
Immune to many things requiring a Fort save
Gain a nice Slam attack that's as good (or better than) any martial weapon
A big attack bonus thanks to your huge STR, but no iterative attacks
Large size (10' reach, 50' base movement), DR 5/magic, and a menu B ability or two from menu A
If you can't be targetted separately, you're now type Construct effectively, with all the bonuses that gives.
No cost.

The point is, even if it adds a Tenser-like "can't cast spells or use wands" clause, it's still a more desirable spell in a lot of ways. It's far stronger if you've got all the Mind's Eye construct Feats like Extended Construction, Advanced Construction, etc.; a Constructor with this power would be a killing machine in his own right. You'd have to add more drawbacks. Like:
1> Like I said, no using powers or wands or whatever.
2> Anything that would affect a person but wouldn't affect the construct (the extra damage from a crit, ability damage, some Fort saves, anything mind-affecting), or anything that allows a Will save, affects the person inside the shell instead of the construct.
3> You can't wear heavy equipment while inside (same wording as Ectoplasmic Armor).

There's also a logical inconsistency; the Astral Construct I construct is size Small, so how can a Medium spellcaster fit inside? You'd have to have the minimum for a Medium race be the AC 2, which makes this a level 4 power.

 

[Scion]

Tenser's (Wizard 6):

I'm still useing 3.0 So lets go there instead.
1d6 temporary hit points per caster level
(11d6) min, avg 38.5 (and when these go away you dont lose the power)
+4 natural armor
+2d4 avg 5 Strength enhancement bonus
+2d4 avg 5 Dexterity enhancement bonus
+1 BAB / 2 caster levels
+5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves
proficiency with all simple and martial weapons (which could be magical).
The character can’t cast spells, even from magic items.
Material Component: A potion of Strength, which the character drinks (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).
Requires only one spell known.

Ecto Construct (let's take the 6th-level version, using an AC 4 as our shell):
+27 HP (once these are gone, though, the rest of the abilities go away)
STR goes to 25+half casters base, DEX goes to 15+half casters base
+5 Natural AC, but a -1 to AC thanks to size
Immune to many things requiring a Fort save
Slam attack d8 (not sure how this is as good or better than a martial weapon, most of this size category are doing d10 or more.
Large Strength, but tensors doesnt give enough anyway.
Large size (10' reach, 50' base movement)
DR 5/+1 (nice, but worthless at this level)
menu B ability or two from menu A (random combat boost or noncombat aspect)
If you can't be targetted separately, you're now type Construct effectively, with all the bonuses that gives.
Need to know at least 2 different powers, this one plus an astral construct, if you want your construct form to improve this cost grows as levels increase. (definately NOT 'no cost')

The point is, even if it adds a Tenser-like "can't cast spells or use wands" clause, it's still a more desirable spell in a lot of ways. It's far stronger if you've got all the Mind's Eye construct Feats like Extended Construction, Advanced Construction, etc.; a Constructor with this power would be a killing machine in his own right. You'd have to add more drawbacks. Like:
1> Like I said, no using powers or wands or whatever.
2> Anything that would affect a person but wouldn't affect the construct (the extra damage from a crit, ability damage, some Fort saves, anything mind-affecting), or anything that allows a Will save, affects the person inside the shell instead of the construct.
3> You can't wear heavy equipment while inside (same wording as Ectoplasmic Armor).

There's also a logical inconsistency; the Astral Construct I construct is size Small, so how can a Medium spellcaster fit inside? You'd have to have the minimum for a Medium race be the AC 2, which makes this a level 4 power.

Arguably tensors transformation is weak for its level, but even if it isnt psionic personal buffs are supposed to be stronger than the arcane equivalent. (there are lots of examples of that in the power section). Also, I already accounted for the size difference problem, the power states that the construct needs to be at least the same size as the manifestor.

Now, you lose the use of basically all your equipment. Magic armor and weapons and other such objects you had as a character are gone, while the mage with his transformation gets to keep useing his.

Basically you gain this construct around you and get to control everything it does useing its senses, but all of your personal items are inside of it so arent able to be used. As your body is effectively in stasis so would be this stuff. Does that help balance it out in your opinion? Your AC while in this form will never be very good for the level it is needed, you are forced to use the slam unless you drop your weapon to begin with (but as you dont gain the martial proficiencies you cant use any weapons you couldnt before), and the abilities you can gain are fun but not terribly impressive.

I think most of that balances out the ability to not attack with your new form for one of its limited rounds and use one of your powers. The form itself has a lot of offensive potential (probably more than the caster) but its defensive is way way down. All the while it has a very short duration with a high activation cost. Of course it is also your mind controlling it, so something that takes over your mind would still effect you.

Since it goes away when the extra hp are lost, plus all of the other drawbacks, at this point I'm not even sure if the power is strong enough (let alone too strong). Turns you into the combat machine that after one round of hits all of your power goes away.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'm still useing 3.0 So lets go there instead.

Shouldn't make much difference.

Slam attack d8 (not sure how this is as good or better than a martial weapon, most of this size category are doing d10 or more.

It's not the d8 that's impressive. It's the extra damage you get for having a STR of 30+ that's impressive. 1d8 plus a metric buttload of STR bonus is substantially better than a 2d6 greatsword. The fact that you can't be disarmed is just a nice perk.

DR 5/+1 (nice, but worthless at this level)
It'll be interesting to see how they update that DR to 3.5E. Yes, in 3E it's mostly a worthless DR by the time you're high in level, although I always found it useful when getting hit by archers; those that didn't enchant their arrows had a hard time punching through even light DR (and we had house-ruled GMW, of course).

menu B ability or two from menu A (random combat boost or noncombat aspect)

You can't underestimate these abilities. Menu A includes 60' flight, and menu B includes things like +4 Deflection AC. The biggest plus is the flexibility.

Need to know at least 2 different powers, this one plus an astral construct, if you want your construct form to improve this cost grows as levels increase. (definately NOT 'no cost')

And if you want to cast Tenser's more than a few times, you need two spells, an item creation Feat, a lab to make stuff in, money, and XP.
You can't count the Astral Construct power as a cost, because it's a legitimate power in its own right. If you have a player who uses ACs as his form of attack, it only costs him one known power to add this to his repertoire, which is exactly the same as a Sorcerer adding Tenser's.

So, item for item, Tenser's is comparable to your power used to make an AC4 shell, ASSUMING you don't allow the encapsulated psion to manifest new powers while inside.

psionic personal buffs are supposed to be stronger than the arcane equivalent. (there are lots of examples of that in the power section).

I disagree. IMO, it's not even close. Which powers were you thinking of?
Psions have quite a few good ones, but their biggest advantage is the lack of components (especially Material ones), which turns some good spells like Stoneskin and Forcecage into great powers like Inertial Barrier or Mass Cocoon.
But, there's no Mage Armor or Shield; the closest analog, Ectoplasmic Armor, is high level and has other limitations. And, Wizards get Mirror Image, Blur, Blink, Alter Self, and of course Haste. Psions get the Vigor and Biofeedback lines instead.
Or, they take spells like the Endurance/Bull's Strength/etc. line and combine them into one power, Animal Affinity, but make it self-only to balance. (Same goes for Darkvision/Vigilance for Psiwarriors).
Then there's the claw/bite powers. They're great, right up until you start needing magical weapons; at that point, only Claws of the Vampire is worth much.
Not stronger, just different. If anything, the Wizard can self-buff himself FAR beyond the Psion.

Also, I already accounted for the size difference problem, the power states that the construct needs to be at least the same size as the manifestor.

You're right, I missed that.

Now, you lose the use of basically all your equipment. Magic armor and weapons and other such objects you had as a character are gone, while the mage with his transformation gets to keep useing his.

A mage using Tenser's loses the effects of his Amulet of Natural Armor because the spell doesn't stack (until 3.5E...). He keeps his Cloak of Resistance, but the guy inside the construct can ignore two out of three saves to begin with (the construct's immune to most Will and Fort saves) as written.
The guy in the construct still gets the half the benefits of his Gloves of Dexterity and Belt of Strength. That may not seem like much, but it doesn't matter how big the belt is, 25+(STR/2) is better than (STR+5). Unless you can get to STR 40, that is.
Any weapon the wizard is carrying will be inferior to the slam attack the construct gets, not to mention its grappling abilities (and the construct can take Improved Grab!). And, the Wizard isn't going to carry around a Greatsword that he can't use 99% of the time for those few occasions when he casts this spell, so the weapon he uses will probably be a dinky dagger.
Headbands of Intellect, Cloaks of Charisma, etc. aren't useful to either person since they can't cast spells. Ditto for any item that improves spellcasting ability or casts a spell X times per day.
So, it comes down to the amount of armor a Wizard wears, or miscellaneous AC items like Rings of Protection. Almost every Wizard I know gets his armor AC from either Mage Armor or Bracers. A Psion might wear more physical armor, but they also have things like Ectoplasmic Armor.
There are also a few questionable ones. If the psion is wearing an item that gives Darkvision, does that transfer? Why wouldn't a headband of intellect still function fully if his mind replaces that of the construct?

Of course it is also your mind controlling it, so something that takes over your mind would still effect you.

Then you need to say that. As you wrote it, if your body is inside the construct it's untargettable, and "sharing its senses" doesn't mean the same thing as "single mind". Constructs have WIS and CHA for a reason. That'd be step one, then; say that your mind REPLACES that of the construct, so it has no WIS or CHA of its own (and Will saves, too) and becomes vulnerable to mind-effecting spells or things that affect Humanoids.
Also, constructs are inherently neutral (unlike a Wizard's summoned creatures), so if you don't change this, a "psion in a box" can arguably pass through Protection From Good spells... bad idea.

Since it goes away when the extra hp are lost, plus all of the other drawbacks, at this point I'm not even sure if the power is strong enough (let alone too strong). Turns you into the combat machine that after one round of hits all of your power goes away.

How many rounds do you see most Wizards keep Tenser's going? Tenser's keeps you from casting spells, so most times I've ever seen it used (which isn't many) revolved around a specific situation where the Wizard KNEW his spells wouldn't be useful. But, if there were a situation where you wanted to Tenser's but still needed to occasionally cast spells, you wouldn't keep it on for the full duration.

The fact that it wears off after a couple rounds of combat hurts a bit, but unlike Tenser's it has non-combat applications (flight, for one) and for constructs 27 HP can last an awfully long time. They're immune to a lot, and can pick resistances up pretty easily. Or, if I just want it to last longer, I'll take the menu B choice that gives 3d10 temporary HP; now I can take 44 damage before my cocoon goes splat (or better yet, 43 damage and then one huge 200-point attack that finishes it off).
Then, there's the fact that it's "just 27 HP". Let's say I'm a 12th-level Psion who specializes in INT, or else I wouldn't be casting this, so I'd have 4+11d4+(12*CON bonus) HP. With CON 14, that's 55 HP, so even without the 3d10 extra I'm giving myself 50% more HP than I had before. With it, I'm nearly doubling my effective HP, and that's assuming there wasn't any wasted damage, sneak attacks, or criticals that the shell absorbed.

One problem is how it's phrased. If your body is in stasis inside the shell, you're just utterly invulnerable to a LOT of things. Critical hits, energy drain, ability drain, sneak attacks, all those Fort save things. Anything that targets creature type "humanoid", because they can't target me directly. If someone Disintegrates me, it destroys the construct but I, the Psion, am fine. Can an incorporeal creature reach through the construct to attack me? If not, then there are a few more creatures that would be totally ineffective against me.

Also, realize that Astral Constructs scale awfully quickly. An AC4 might be approximately as good as a spell like Tenser's, but what about the 9th-level version that uses an AC7? Much, much better. Then, there's all the Feats. Extended Construction increases duration to 1 minute per level. Advanced Construction adds a whole slew of new options to the menus, including Fast Healing and more HP. Then there's the one that lets you choose more menu abilities for each construct.

Frankly, I think you'd be better off just making a generic buffing spell along the lines of Tenser's. Give a little DR, Natural AC, STR, DEX, and maybe one minor ability from menu A, and you no longer have to worry about things like construct traits.

 

[Scion]

gah I had this whole nice post written out, and then the board died when I tried to send it or something.. will try to recap a bit, not quite as indepth though.

3.0 vs 3.5 makes a pretty big difference unfortunately, the powers are very different. We can go 3.5 if you like though

A fighter type who is merely enlarged will be weidling his 2d8 greatsword with +2 str size bonus. 18 + 3level +6enhancement +2 size = 29. vs 25 + (12 base, why add anything from levels? enhancement from equipment doesnt count as it isnt BASE str) = 31

2d8 + 13 (avg 22)
d8 + 15 (avg 19.5)

greatsword wins! by a lot especially as he does it all day long, and can still up it through other means.

The ecto guy will have a horrible ac, power attacking will make this desparity even greater.

5/magic will almost never matter. It only matters against mooks or guys who shouldnt be a problem anyway, even with range. So it is fairly unimportant and easily bypassed.

The menu choices are just plan cool, they add a lot of versitility but dont improve the combat potential by an incredible amount. Good stuff. Even taking the ones to cover up weaknesses (extra hp, or deflection) doesnt help a great deal as neither are very large.

I've never known any groups who required the potion for tensors, but if you do it not a big deal. A few gold each time you cast the spell almost doesnt matter, you could get all of that gold back and more by spending a day here and there renting out your spell casting ability.

In order to keep this power competitive you need to keep taking more astral construct powers. Minimum is 2 powers (this plus one ac) but this wont do as you made mention of its scalability. By the time you are done it could take even 4 or 5 of the psions incredibly limited selection of powers (more limited than sorcerer). HUGE cost.

I had made a list of powers that were more powerful than their mage equivalent, but you did part of this for me anyway. Animal affinity and inertial barrier are perfect examples, they are the norm, not the exception. The only really unfair part of it is that new products come out for wizards almost constantly, but the psions arent so lucky. So while the mages can get spells they shouldnt just from sheer numbers the psions (who's personal buffs should be stronger) cant always show it.

Loseing the use of 99% of your equipment is an incredible loss. You lose your weapon, armor, cloak, robe, boots, helm, rings, whatever.. How can this not be huge? This loss actually makes me think that my power needs a boost in power, and not a small one, to make up for it.

Rememeber, only base stats are added, so if you have a girdle of giant str good job, wont do any good.

If the mage is going to be casing tensors he 'should' plan ahead by having a cool magic weapon to use with it, otherwise why did he bother?

Tensors takes one action to cast
Ecto takes on full round to manifest

tensors gives bonuses to str and dex (I think they should be of a different name, why give them enhancement when the designers had to know it wouldnt matter?)

Over all, tensors is a very weak spell for its level. It needs a lot of help just to be useful, and that rarely ever happens which you said yourself

You have your own mind, this power does nothing to make you immune to will saves.

This power does make you immune to a subset of fortitude saves. It is nice, but not a huge perk. Several low level spells do the same.

I get the impression that you think 27 hp is a lot, its not. One fireball spell, one single attack from a fighter type, a few attacks from mooks and this spell is gone. That is a very serious drawback.


I'd really rather use something that is already there and build off of it rather than try to mimic a weak mage spell, especially as this spell should be stronger than the mage equivalent (i'll go back and site more examples if you like, they are rampant even with the proliferation of broken mage spells)

All in all, this power gives you a few rounds at most of use before it goes away, those rounds are roughly equivelant to tensors (with this power coming out ahead, just not incredibly so). While it is in effect you could use a few abilities that might even be considered 'special' if other classes couldnt already do them all with lower level spells, it would just take a few instead of one.

Even then the fighter type will still do more damage with less magic, do it more consistantly, and all day long. So the psion is still worse than the fighter even with a power that has almost no duration.

The big problem here is that tensors is so incredibly weak, that is the spell that should be fixed

 

[Scion]

I changed the power above a bit, check it out, is that better? I added a pretty huge drawback.