Psionic Swordsage

Ruslanchik

First Post
I am working on a level 10 character and am really intrigued by the Swordsage class and its potential synergy with Psychic Warrior and psionic feats. I am not sure, though, whether I should go straight Swordsage or if I should take levels in other classes. Any help here would be appreciated.

The character will focus on Diamond Mind and Setting Sun maneuvers and will use a katana two-handedly. These things are certain. We will be using a point-buy system but I'm not sure how many points yet. Priority will be Str, Wis, Dex, Con, Int, Cha, I think.

I have been considering a lot of options, but the two extremes are these:

Human Swordsage 6/Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2
This build would give loads of bonus feats, some basic psionic powers, and better BAB, saves, and hp, but would lose some Swordsage class abilities and initiator levels. The initiator level would be 8.

Or

Psionic race (Xeph, Maenad, Elan) Swordsage 10
This build would give maximum initiator level and access to psionic feats while sacrificing lots of bonus feats. Initiator level 10.

The feats I have in mind are (in no particular order): Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (in case I need to fight one-handedly), Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Adaptive Style, Vital Recovery, Instant Clarity, Sudden Recovery.

I definitely want this character to be psionic and a Swordsage, otherwise I'm open to anything. If possible I want to limit the books to PHB, XPH, and ToB to keep things simple, but I can use any WoTC book.

Thanks for your help!
 

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Unless you're in a really really REALLY high-powered game, I'd recommend against taking Deep Impact to use with maneuvers. They're so strong together that you're liable to irk everybody else at the table.

I'd suggest a halfway point between your two options: Swordsage 8/Psychic Warrior 2. Race can be whatever you feel like at that point. Initiator level of 9 means you get access to 5th level maneuvers.

For feats, skip EWP(katana) and just grab a greatsword. Also, consider taking Psionic Meditation instead of Instant Clarity. You'll have more move actions available than swift actions, and the 3/day limit on IC is irritating. I'd also suggest replacing Sudden Recovery with Cleave.
-blarg
 

At the end of the Swordsage section it talks about making alterations to the class for other types of flavor. Why not make the Swordsage itself Psionic?


Have a Manifester Level and Initiator Level equal to your Swordsage Level.
Any power with a 1 hour per Caster Level Duration could be taken as a Stance.
Half of your Maneuvers Known would come from your normal Swordsage choices while the other half would be Powers from the Psychic Warrior List.
The Powers would have the normal Manifestation time and the Base Manifestation Cost would be free.
At the end of Combat when you would normally Refresh everything you would gain Temporary Power Points equal to your Swordsage Level and you can use these Power Points and any others you might have normally to Augment the Powers that you Manifest. The normal Power Point Cap would be in force and the free part of the Power would count against this cap.
You would also gain Wild Talent as a Bonus Feat at Swordsage 1.
Any Power that you use with a Duration of Greater than 5 minutes would have its Duration reduced to 5 minutes unless you are using it as a Stance.


Some Powers might have to be said no to by the Dungeon Master and other Powers from different lists may be allowed as well.

I think that this might work out all right! :D :cool: :D

You could even take 2 Levels of Monk and take the Tashlatora Feat if you felt ambitious! :cool: :cool: :cool:
 

Slaved, I like your idea, but this is going to be a one-off game and that seems like an awful lot of work for one evening of playing.

Blargney, I like the idea of Psionic Meditation instead of Sudden Recovery to get around the 3 times/day issue.

Another question: expending psionic focus is a free action right? Since most strikes are swift actions, this character could user Greater Psionic Weapon and a strike on the same attack, correct?
 

But I just did all of the work! :D :D :D

Expending Focus is almost always a part of some other Action. Any time that it is not the Rules should say what type of Action it takes.

If you are just working on a One Time Deal though may I suggest building a Tome of Battle Character and taking the War Mind Prestige Class? Sweeping Strike has been ruled to work with Maneuvers!!! :D :cool: :cool:

With a Level 10 build you should be able to get into it!
 

Ruslanchik said:
Psionic race (Xeph, Maenad, Elan) Swordsage 10
This build would give maximum initiator level and access to psionic feats while sacrificing lots of bonus feats. Initiator level 10.
This is what I'd do. Maneuvers are more fun than feats anyway. I mean, a feat might give you +1 to attack rolls, but a new level of maneuvers might mean you can make people explode!

Xeph is a very strong choice because of their Burst ability, Darkvision (great for sneaky dudes), and racial save bonus. Also, +2 Dex is nice if you plan on going Finesse, which makes a lot of sense if you are focused on Shadow Hand stances. Of course, going Finesse costs you two feats... you'll want Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade (for Dex to damage).

Dex > Con > Wis > Int > Str > Cha
1/ Shadow Blade (take the Island of Blades stance); take focus in Shadow Hand weapons
3/ Weapon Finesse
6/ Psionic Weapon
9/ Psionic Meditation

The one thing I do NOT like about this simple build is that there's no room for Adaptive Style.

You'll need Concentration ranks for Psionic Meditation, but you probably want Diamond Mind maneuvers anyway, so that's basically free. The other awesome thing about being Psionic is taking 15 on your Concentration checks... but unfortunately, Improved Insightful Strike is one level beyond your reach. Still, it means you can effectively take 15 on a save with the usual Diamond Mind Counters. That's strong.

- - -

Strength build:

Str > Con > Wis > Dex > Int > Cha
1/ Adaptive Style
3/ Psionic Weapon
6/ Psionic Meditation
9/ Greater Psionic Weapon

Why no Power Attack? Well, ask yourself this: could you really expect to hit when you Power Attack for -7? If not, Greater Psionic Weapon is better, because your expected bonus damage is 14.

- - -

Skirmish build:

Str > Con > Wis > Dex > Int > Cha
1/ Speed of Thought
3/ Desert Fire
6/ Psionic Meditation
9/ Adaptive Style

Take the rare non-fire Desert Wind Strikes like Flashing Sun, which is compatible with Desert Fire, and be sure to get the Tiger Claw Boosts which add extra attacks. Flurry of Greatswords! Take ranged attacks like Fan the Flames and Shadow Garrote, since you'll be able to outrun pretty much anyone when you want -- with your Burst, you can move 70 ft. as a single Move action, leaving you plenty of time to snipe.

Your Psionic Focus is purely defensive in this build. Be sure to take some Diamond Mind Counters, and to "Adaptive" them away when an encounter turns out to lack attacks targeting that save.

- - -

This one I call: ZOMG teh DM is ASLEEP!

Human: Str 13+, Wis 13+. All stats except Cha are important.

1/ Warblade 1 -- Wild Talent, Psionic Weapon
2/ Fighter 1 -- Power Attack
3/ Fighter 2 -- Iron Heart Aura, Weapon Focus
4/ Warblade 2
5/ Warblade 3
6/ Warblade 4 -- Psionic Meditation
7/ Warblade 5
8/ Warblade 6
9/ Warblade 7 -- Deep Impact
10/ Warblade 8

They key to this build is Deep Impact + Ruby Nightmare Blade. Do not use this trick unless you want to see Psionics and/or Bo9S banned! This is one of the few broken tricks in the Tome of Battle. :\

Cheers, -- N
 


Nifft said:
Dex > Con > Wis > Int > Str > Cha
1/ Shadow Blade (take the Island of Blades stance); take focus in Shadow Hand weapons
3/ Weapon Finesse
6/ Psionic Weapon
9/ Psionic Meditation

The one thing I do NOT like about this simple build is that there's no room for Adaptive Style.
I'd suggest you take Adaptive Style instead of Psionic Weapon. Your main use for Psionic Focus should be "taking 15" with Diamond Mind maneuvers. I'd only take PW as a prerequisite for Deep Impact, and as this is a one-off game I think you'll get more out of AS.
 

I'd be inclined to say pure Swordsage, with a psionic race and taking Psionic feats - so, say, an Elan Swordsage-10; feats, oh....
Psionic Weapon, Psionic Meditation, and Deep Impact... you'll pack quite a nasty punch that way.
 

blargney the second said:
Unless you're in a really really REALLY high-powered game, I'd recommend against taking Deep Impact to use with maneuvers. They're so strong together that you're liable to irk everybody else at the table.

I'd suggest a halfway point between your two options: Swordsage 8/Psychic Warrior 2. Race can be whatever you feel like at that point. Initiator level of 9 means you get access to 5th level maneuvers.

For feats, skip EWP(katana) and just grab a greatsword. Also, consider taking Psionic Meditation instead of Instant Clarity. You'll have more move actions available than swift actions, and the 3/day limit on IC is irritating. I'd also suggest replacing Sudden Recovery with Cleave.
-blarg
Keep in mind that Deep Impact is more useful with high-level maneuvers, not the mid-level and low-level ones he's going to have access to. He won't really outclass any decent barbarian at damage output (and certainly not even come close in durability), though he'll hit harder on the first round and get worse from there.

For the OP:
I'd suggest either Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 5, or Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/War Mind 1, or Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/Psion 1, or Swordsage 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 4, or Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 3/Fighter 2, or Swordsage 9/Psychic Warrior 1. As a Human. Figure out whether you want feats the most, or BAB, or HP, or saving throws.

The first is well-balanced between the two, gives you a decent number of power points and psionic powers, and a decent number of feats, with an initiator level of 7, sufficient for 4th-level maneuvers (same as your original combo). It gives the worst BAB, though, of only +6/+1. Your saving throws will all be very decent, but none great (+5 each). You'll have roughly a dozen power points, give or take a few, enough to manifest Vigor and something else (like an augmented Offensive Precognition, or Expansion) in more or less every battle.

The second gives you slightly better BAB (+7/+2) and hit points, five or so fewer power points, one or two less powers known (no biggie), and an extra feat. Good Fortitude.

The third and fourth versions will optimize your number of feats, with a +6 or +8 BAB depending on which version. More HP with the fourth version, more powers with the third version.

The fifth version will get you a +7 BAB, good HP though not as great as a pure Fighter, a good but not great number of bonus feats, and decent power points, leaving you within 2 levels of getting another PW bonus feat or Ftr bonus feat (or of getting 5th-level maneuvers). A good, well-rounded choice, but not the best in any one regard.

The last version gets you Evasion (9th-level Swordsage) and a Defensive Stance benefit, and the Sense Magic ability, with minimal psionic ability but enough to use the psionic feats you need. You get only one bonus feat this way (aside from the human bonus feat of course), but have 5th-level maneuvers. Your Reflex + Evasion will be handy against spellcasters and stuff, while your Fortitude will be decent and your Will pretty good (especially with a good Wisdom). But, your BAB will only be +6.

Frankly, 5th-level maneuvers and stances aren't that good. There are a few really worthwhile ones, but the rest are either very situational or very disappointing for their level. Whatever way you go, I suggest making your Swordsage levels (except the 1st one) be the last levels you take in the build; that way your initiator level will be higher each time you take the SS levels, for purposes of picking maneuvers/stances to learn.

Personally, I'd go Swordsage 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 4. I'd make the 2nd PW level the last level gained, in order to use its bonus feat to acquire Melee Weapon Mastery from the Player's Handbook II (trust me, it works according to the wording of the PW's bonus feat selection, just look at the book or the SRD). Your fighter levels will qualify you for it, and you'll just barely have the +8 BAB needed for it. +2 to attack and damage will be handy.

Or you can take the Swordsage levels last, except for the 1st one, in order to get a 3rd-level stance as your second stance learned. Then you'll at least qualify to take Melee Weapon Mastery as your later, 12th-level feat. Regardless, the advancement should start as swordsage 1, then psychic warrior 1, then fighter 1-4, then back to swordsage or psychic warrior.

Feat-wise, with this build you could get....Weapon Focus (swordsage Discipline Focus bonus feat), Adaptive Style (human bonus feat), Vital Recovery (1st-level), Psionic Weapon (psychic warrior 1 bonus feat), Power Attack (fighter 1 bonus feat), Sudden Recovery (3rd-level), Improved Initiative (fighter 2 bonus feat), Weapon Specialization (fighter 4 bonus feat), Instant Clarity or Psionic Meditation (6th-level, you'll probably need to spend a few fighter skill points cross-class to qualify for it though), Deep Impact (9th-level), and Melee Weapon Mastery (psychic warrior 2 bonus feat).

You could replace Sudden Recovery with Cleave, Extra Readied Maneuver, Skill Focus (Concentration), Psionic Talent, Speed of Thought, or Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The latter should only be used if you 1) would rather use a katana/bastard sword instead of a greatsword, 2) don't mind the reduced damage output from doing so (including the no-two-handed-increase-strength-bonus and no-doubling-of-power-attack-bonus), and 3) want to use a shield for better AC. If you aren't fine with all three of those, don't bother. Just use a greatsword/nodachi if you won't at least take full advantage of the one-handed katana EWP.

Since you'll be using Deep Impact, Greater Psionic Weapon isn't worthwhile (you'd have to give up MWM or DI for that, anyway). You couldn't use it at the same time, and Instant Clarity can only be used a few times per day, unlike Psionic Meditation.
 

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