I'm reading through the Expanded Psionics handbook and am very excited to use it. My first inclination is that Psionics should be different, but the authors of the book seem to feel differently. I was wondering what you all thought/had learned from experience about this. Any help would be appreciated.
Psionics as the Same or Psionics as different??
- Thread starter doseyclwn
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Three_Haligonians
First Post
Psionics are different
I have always been a huge fan of psionics and have always thought they should be treated as totally different from magic. That said, I use my own variation on the "psionics are different" rules in an attempt to be fair and save myself some headache when it pops up occasionally in my campaign:
Since magic and psionics are different, detect magic will not pick up any psionic effects and vice versa, however casting invisibility purge will still reveal a psionically invisibile creature since the spell says "negates all forms of invisibility"
Since the two are different, psionics function perfectly in dead magic and wild magic zones and as such, magic works well in the psionic equivalent (something I found on the WoTC website)
Whenever a creature has DR that requires magic to bypass, I automatically rule that psionicl enhanced weapons will also (although I'm tempted to make specialized creatures that are exempt from this rule.. DR magic and only magic... that sort of thing.)
The same goes for Spell Resistance and Power Resistance, if you have one it counts for both (again maybe I'll create an exception one day to mess up my players)
However, I've decided that for enhancing weapons and armour, the two sources stack (so a +3 from magic and a +2 from psionics equals a +5 total) but the +10 maximum still applies (otherwise you could have a +20 weapon) and so far this hasn't been a problem yet
Anyway, this is just my personal take on it, hope it gives you some ideas to consider
J from Three Haligonians
I have always been a huge fan of psionics and have always thought they should be treated as totally different from magic. That said, I use my own variation on the "psionics are different" rules in an attempt to be fair and save myself some headache when it pops up occasionally in my campaign:
Since magic and psionics are different, detect magic will not pick up any psionic effects and vice versa, however casting invisibility purge will still reveal a psionically invisibile creature since the spell says "negates all forms of invisibility"
Since the two are different, psionics function perfectly in dead magic and wild magic zones and as such, magic works well in the psionic equivalent (something I found on the WoTC website)
Whenever a creature has DR that requires magic to bypass, I automatically rule that psionicl enhanced weapons will also (although I'm tempted to make specialized creatures that are exempt from this rule.. DR magic and only magic... that sort of thing.)
The same goes for Spell Resistance and Power Resistance, if you have one it counts for both (again maybe I'll create an exception one day to mess up my players)
However, I've decided that for enhancing weapons and armour, the two sources stack (so a +3 from magic and a +2 from psionics equals a +5 total) but the +10 maximum still applies (otherwise you could have a +20 weapon) and so far this hasn't been a problem yet
Anyway, this is just my personal take on it, hope it gives you some ideas to consider
J from Three Haligonians
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Err... Psionics Are Different, but with some house rules:
[House Rules]
IMC, Psionics Are Different, but effects are the same.
So, a psionic Eradicate Invisibility will reveal a magically Invisible guy, but you can't dispel his invisibility with a dispel psionics power.
Likewise, force screen protects you from magic missile (and -- heavy house rules here -- concussion blast), and shield protects you from concussion blast.
Aura alteration can affect any effect with the [Compulsion] descriptor, be it a power or spell. Break enchantment can negate many [Mind-Affecting] powers, and true strike will negate the miss chance granted by concealing amphora.
The only places where "different" really comes into play are:
- Metamagic vs. Metapsionic Rods (and Crystal Capacitors vs. Pearls of Power)
- Spell Turning vs. Reddopsi
- PR vs. SR
- Dispel Magic / Dispel Psionics
Even then, monsters with SR or PR get the other one, albeit at -10, unless they are supposed to be seriously powerful (like Dragons, Elementals and Outsiders, who get both at full strength). Half-Fiends pick which one is strong and which is weak.
[/House Rules]
All in all, I think that were I to do it over, I'd use the "reduced potency" variant, where dispel magic would work on psionic powers, but at -4 (and vice versa).
-- N
[House Rules]
IMC, Psionics Are Different, but effects are the same.
So, a psionic Eradicate Invisibility will reveal a magically Invisible guy, but you can't dispel his invisibility with a dispel psionics power.
Likewise, force screen protects you from magic missile (and -- heavy house rules here -- concussion blast), and shield protects you from concussion blast.
Aura alteration can affect any effect with the [Compulsion] descriptor, be it a power or spell. Break enchantment can negate many [Mind-Affecting] powers, and true strike will negate the miss chance granted by concealing amphora.
The only places where "different" really comes into play are:
- Metamagic vs. Metapsionic Rods (and Crystal Capacitors vs. Pearls of Power)
- Spell Turning vs. Reddopsi
- PR vs. SR
- Dispel Magic / Dispel Psionics
Even then, monsters with SR or PR get the other one, albeit at -10, unless they are supposed to be seriously powerful (like Dragons, Elementals and Outsiders, who get both at full strength). Half-Fiends pick which one is strong and which is weak.
[/House Rules]
All in all, I think that were I to do it over, I'd use the "reduced potency" variant, where dispel magic would work on psionic powers, but at -4 (and vice versa).
-- N
tarchon
First Post
I don't use D&D psionics, precisely because I've never seen anyone successfully explain how it was any different from magic with the jargon changed (also my objection to the whole realm of real-life "psi"). I could see having one or the other, but having both (when we tried it) just weighed the game down with piles of different mechanics that did the same things in the end. (Having things like "id insinuation" in a Medieval setting didn't help much either.) Then if we didn't make them fundamentally the same, it seemed like game sessions bogged down into endless debates about how they interacted with each other, especially when it came to Enchantment spells.
Well, the XPH really presents three different options: same, different, and same-but-somewhat-different. I'm trying out option #3, but it hasn't been an issue yet. We will see.
Treating them as the same is really the easiest way to go about it. Far fewer headaches that way. Also, if you're going to seperate out psi from magic, it seems to me that you should also differentiate arcane magic from divine, to remain logically consistant.
Treating them as the same is really the easiest way to go about it. Far fewer headaches that way. Also, if you're going to seperate out psi from magic, it seems to me that you should also differentiate arcane magic from divine, to remain logically consistant.
Spatula said:
Way ahead of you, cooking utensil person.
Actually, though the mechanics are similar, we have been using a spell point system. In this system, wizards are arcane, clerics & paladins are divine, druids and rangers are animistic, and psions are, well, psionic. Bards are none of the above, and all of the above. We are kicking around an arcane warrior type, but have yet to settle on one.
All are different, a little. You can detect any type with any type. You can dispel, but if of a different type, you suffer a -2 to your caster level check. Needless to say, we've been busy.
Kyamsil
First Post
IMC I use a variant of "Psionics is Different" with diminished effect.
Magic and psionics are not entirely different. Dispel magic can negate psionics but with a -4 and viceversa. Power Resistance = Spell Resistance -4 for creatures with spell resistance and Spell Resistance = Power Resistance -4 for creatures with power resistance.
Apart from those two cases, magic and psionics are transparent to each other.
Magic and psionics are not entirely different. Dispel magic can negate psionics but with a -4 and viceversa. Power Resistance = Spell Resistance -4 for creatures with spell resistance and Spell Resistance = Power Resistance -4 for creatures with power resistance.
Apart from those two cases, magic and psionics are transparent to each other.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Either option can work well but for simplicity sake, I usually go with psionics as the same. It makes power resistance and other issues so much easier to deal with and doesn't turn the player into an unknown power who when he gets hit with magic, turns to ash.
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