Psionics: Elemental Steward, Mantles, Energy Push

[azhrei_fje]

I'm confused. I'm playing an Ardent (from Complete Psionics) and I've taken the Elements Mantle and the Energy Mantle.

The elemental steward power lists the power points required as "3", but I can choose that power at level 1. Which means I can take it but not use it (because it's higher than my manfester level)? Is that correct? Looking through the CP book, I think it should be more like the call armor power, which is 1 point when taken as a 1st level power by a psiwar and 3 points when taken as a 2nd level power (in the Justice category). Page 63 of the XPH also says that required power points to manifest a power are based on the level of the power and that the description includes the number of power points for "ease of reference". So I'm guessing they just didn't put enough details into the description.

The Ardent class doesn't have a column for "maximum power level known" like the psion, psiwar, and other psionic classes do. Does this mean that I can take a 2nd level power at first level? I just can't use it? (Again, because the power points required would be higher than my ML.)

Last, the energy push power says that creatures who fail a Strength check may take additional damage if they are pushed into a solid object such as a wall. The damage done is untyped -- should I assume that it's bludgeoning damage? I'm asking this to find out if it bypasses DR.

If anyone has ideas on how to best proceed with a character build based on the Ardent and Elements and Energy as the first two mantles, I'd like to hear about it. My plan is to take Creation next (I took Boost Construct at first level, even though I can't manifest astral construct yet!) and then I'm not sure what I want to do. Maybe Consumption? Or Deception? Our GM is playing the "psionics is different than magic" rule, if that matters.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Nifft]

Complete Psionic was edited by two chimps and a baboon, and the chimps were actually just summer intern chimps. It's a terrible book full of inconsistent and unusable rules.

I suggest you amend anything that doesn't make sense. Give Ardents the same max power level table as the Psion, for example.

Energy push should give the same type of damage as falling, IMHO. Falling damage is often not subject to DR, but campaigns vary.

Cheers, -- N

 

[azhrei_fje]

Complete Psionic was edited by two chimps and a baboon, and the chimps were actually just summer intern chimps. It's a terrible book full of inconsistent and unusable rules.

Heh-heh, that's high praise! Okay, I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to start looking into the astral constructs and how they can be modified with other attributes (flying, burrowing, etc) so I'll keep your comment in mind.

I suggest you amend anything that doesn't make sense. Give Ardents the same max power level table as the Psion, for example.

Okay. I haven't looked at my chosen mantles in much detail yet, but I was concerned that I'd end up with levels where I wouldn't have any choice about what power to learn. I tried to choose my first two mantles to be useful at a lower manifester level, heavy on low-level powers so there'd be lots of choices, and include granted abilities that didn't require expending psionic focus. There weren't many that fit into that mold.

Energy push should give the same type of damage as falling, IMHO. Falling damage is often not subject to DR, but campaigns vary.

Cheers, -- N

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Nifft]

Okay. I haven't looked at my chosen mantles in much detail yet, but I was concerned that I'd end up with levels where I wouldn't have any choice about what power to learn.

Remember that you can always choose a LOWER power than your max allowed. Even if your just-turned-7th-level Ardent has zero 4th level Powers available (for example), he ought to have some 1st, 2nd or 3rd level Powers from which to choose.

Cheers, -- N

 

[moritheil]

There's no need to refer to falling damage, is there? DR never applies against powers.

A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I'm confused. I'm playing an Ardent (from Complete Psionics) and I've taken the Elements Mantle and the Energy Mantle.

Ah, good, I'm sure you've read the book well ebnough to understand it...

The elemental steward power lists the power points required as "3", but I can choose that power at level 1. Which means I can take it but not use it (because it's higher than my manfester level)? Is that correct? Looking through the CP book, I think it should be more like the call armor power, which is 1 point when taken as a 1st level power by a psiwar and 3 points when taken as a 2nd level power (in the Justice category). Page 63 of the XPH also says that required power points to manifest a power are based on the level of the power and that the description includes the number of power points for "ease of reference". So I'm guessing they just didn't put enough details into the description.

Yes, if it is a 1st level power than it is 1 power point to manifest. That is the formula.

The Ardent class doesn't have a column for "maximum power level known" like the psion, psiwar, and other psionic classes do. Does this mean that I can take a 2nd level power at first level? I just can't use it? (Again, because the power points required would be higher than my ML.)

Um, no.
See it doesn't have a max known because it instead has a max manifest. Did you miss that part that you can only select ones you an manifest?
"She must be able to manifest the new power at the level at which she learns it, however" page 7 of the Complete Psionics.

Reading is fundamental. See it works like this
1) You try to take a power
2) you check if you can manifest it
3) If yes go to 5, if no go to 4
4) You can't choose it, stop and look for another
5) You can choose it, take it
6) You choose it.

Ardent is special in that way, but simple.
The cool thing is you can take higher level powers with Practiced Manifester (if multiclassed) or Overchannel (they will increase manifester in their respective ways).

Last, the energy push power says that creatures who fail a Strength check may take additional damage if they are pushed into a solid object such as a wall. The damage done is untyped -- should I assume that it's bludgeoning damage? I'm asking this to find out if it bypasses DR.

Nope, only physical attacks take DR. Being knocked into a wall (like falling) is not the same. Just the easiest way to kill a golem is disintegrate the ground beneath the golem so he falls.

If anyone has ideas on how to best proceed with a character build based on the Ardent and Elements and Energy as the first two mantles, I'd like to hear about it. My plan is to take Creation next (I took Boost Construct at first level, even though I can't manifest astral construct yet!) and then I'm not sure what I want to do. Maybe Consumption? Or Deception? Our GM is playing the "psionics is different than magic" rule, if that matters.

Thanks in advance!

What the? He is making them different how?

Is this PR does not = SR, Dispel Magic no affect Psionics, or what...the nuances matter a great deal...
Why did he change from default (default is they are the same)?

So what is your concept? Why do you believe in Energy/Elements so much? Remember, Ardents are Philisopher Kings of old (what Plato thought should rule over everyone).
Knowing your characters concept will help me choose mantles that fit.

Be aware that Complete Psionics nerfs Astral Construct to one total per manifesting: If you remanifest during same encounter, the old one if still around is gone and new one appears. So you can't ever get 2 out (unless you take the Prc that lets you).

 

[azhrei_fje]

Thanks Nifft and Starbuck. I had somehow missed that line on pg 7 of CP.

Concerning the "psionics is different", the XPH has a description of it on pg 65 that overflows to pg 66.

One of the challenges with the Ardent seems to be choosing mantles that allow for a good progression of powers throughout their career. In terms of my character concept, I'm going for something that has an elementalist feel to it, but I want it to be somewhat well-rounded. I don't want a "one-trick pony."

Here's what I plan to do. The numbers are the Ardent level:

1. Elements mantle: elemental steward; Energy mantle: energy ray
2. Creation mantle: astral construct (already have Boost Construct)
3. energy push or earthwalk; feat Extend Power?
4. earthwalk or energy push; increase Wisdom +1
5. energy burst or energy wall; New mantle: Communication (charm, suggestion, tongues)? Freedom (fly, freedom of movement, teleport)? Knowledge (granted ability, identify, touchsight)?
6. energy wall or energy burst; feat Psionic Meditation?

(Sorry moritheil. My edit overlapped with your new post.)

 

[moritheil]

While Starbuck is a little bit pedantic, I agree with his or her assertion that it is vital to explain how psionics works if the default rules are not used. Otherwise intelligent power selection is impossible.

 

[azhrei_fje]

Oh, and there is talk by the GM of ruling that there was a limit to summon monster of one creature at a time. But that was changed to a HD rating (I think). So it's in flux right now (and we don't play again for a week or so) but it might turn out that multiple astral constructs at one time are possible.

Because there can be only one at a time, I plan to choose the Ectopic Feat that allows the construct to be exploded as a free action. Then I could explode one and create a new one and at the least the last one is completely wasted, even though the damage done is reduced for each round that it exists...

(This campaign is a chance for the GM to learn some of the stranger 3.5E rules. So I wanted to play something I hadn't played before, to try to keep things "new" for me and give the GM some of those "strange" rules he was looking for. I sort of regret that now since having at least one player in the group who knows what's going on can be a good thing. )

 

[Jhaelen]

DR never applies against powers.

Well, that's not correct if you are playing with the rules from Complete Psionic. It has a sidebar on page 79 listing powers that ARE affected by DR.