D&D (2024) Psionics: What Do You Want?

[Reynard]

I don't want to derail the official announcement thread but I am very curious:

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

And as a secondary consideration: is it just psionics that you want to be different? How would you feel if sorcery, miracles and spell singing were also completely different than "spellcasting"?

For the record, I have no dog in this fight. I don't actually care about psionics at all. I do think it would be cool if every form of magic was mechanically distinct, but I doubt that would ever occur. But I am very interested in the thoughts of folks that seem to care very much about this issue.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

A more flexible system where you spend a point-based resource to do smaller things, rather than the computer program-like "packages" that D&D's spells offer.

Why? Because that's what psionic-style magic looks like in fantasy fiction in general (frequent mutable smaller effects), and it's also a style of magic that 5E D&D doesn't have, but mechanically, could easily have.

And as a secondary consideration: is it just psionics that you want to be different? How would you feel if sorcery, miracles and spell singing were also completely different than "spellcasting"?

I'd feel great about that.

Honestly if D&D just straight-up dropped the Vancian approach to magic (which 4E did, and 5E frankly toys with), I do not believe D&D would become significantly less popular - hell, it might become even more dominant in that there'd be more fantasy settings it could fit! All you'd have to do was having spells which were named the same as about maybe 10 specific D&D spells (Fireball, Magic Missile, Sleep, maybe Burning Hands, a few others), and easily the vast majority of people just wouldn't even give two shakes of a lamb's tail so long as the new system was easy to work with.

 

[Sulicius]

Honestly? What they did in this new UA is exactly what I wanted. I don't want them to make a new system of abilities just for one class, then duplicate a ton of spells anyway.

 

[jgsugden]

My desire for psionics is:

• It feels different than magic. It should have different mechanics than magic, and should not feel like a reskinned or augmented wizard or sorcerer.
• It should evoke the tropes of Super Heroes and Force Users. I want the class to feel like Professor X, Nightcrawler, Johnny Storm, Green Lantern and other comic characters. In the case of Psychic Warriors, Jedi and Sith are good models. [Edit: What I mean here is that I want thematic power sets that all interrelate rather than being just a random collection of useful spells - I want their powers to tie together].
• I prefer Power Points as a mechanic. Power Points are an iconic element of the Psionics world I grew to appreciate within D&D, and I would appreciate seeing a return to that as a standard.
• Psionic Offenses and Psionic Defenses should be utilized well. Those classic 10 offenses and defenses from the AD&D PHB should be utilized well. In my optimal use, they create a rock, paper, scissors style advantage/disadvantage when psionic PCs/NPCs fight as well as providing independent benefits.
• Psionics should utilize few, but versatile, powers. A wizard has a spellbook full of options. A sorcerer has a suite of ever prepared powers they can modify with metamagic. I want the Psionic classes to go further away from wizard and have very few spheres of powers that allow for many things to be done within the sphere. For example, a Prokinetic might be able to create flame cones, missiles, walls, explosions, etc..., but they might also be able to turn their body into flame and fly when doing so, or be able to fit through narrow gaps while fire. A telepath might have mind reading and domination/charm abilities, but might also be able to make people remember things they forgot, change memories, put illusions in someone's mind, invade dreams, avoid language barriers, etc...
• Psionics should be capable of overload. Psionics should not have an upper cap that is like a finite limit as we see in spellcasting with the limitation of the highest level spell slot to which the PC has access. Instead, I want them to have the capabilities to push beyond 'safe' limits and do something special - but at a risk that can backfire. You might launch a psychic blast at enemies that does above normal damage for someone of your level - but you risk doing that damage to yourself or your allies ... or perhaps blowing out your psychic abilities for a bit.

I have a system that does it. I built it a long time ago and updated it throughout 3E/3.5 and then revised it again for 5E, although it has seen little (PC) use as I generally do not announce it until players encounter psionics within the campaign (they're rare). It works. It is fun. It would need a lot of work to make it accessible to others as it is a bit too convoluted.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

Primary: thematic compatibility with the role of psionicists in Dark Sun.

Secondary: a good enough generic all-purpose mental-powers class that could fit a setting where worldbuilding uses just that.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Some space for optional (house) rules: the displays and the power points pool.

The fraals in the list of PC species, and the blue goblin subrace.

The return of the mindstealer dragon from Dragon magazine (and it appeared in Magic: Gathering-Forgotten Realms collab).

The ardent class to create stories about hate-love relations with the rest of divine spellcasters.

The elemental stewards (from Complete Psionic).

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't want to derail the official announcement thread but I am very curious:

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

And as a secondary consideration: is it just psionics that you want to be different? How would you feel if sorcery, miracles and spell singing were also completely different than "spellcasting"?

For the record, I have no dog in this fight. I don't actually care about psionics at all. I do think it would be cool if every form of magic was mechanically distinct, but I doubt that would ever occur. But I am very interested in the thoughts of folks that seem to care very much about this issue.

I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t have any real investment in the psion class, but I do think it would be great if each type of magic functioned differently. But, I don’t think the 5e designers have any interest in designing different casting systems for different types of magic, and I accept that.

 

[Staffan]

Other than getting to wave at Mr. Morden's head on a pike, I would want a system where psions are highly flexible within their primary focus. Two things in 3.5e that combined to create this impression was:

• Qualitative upcasting. This was, at the time, a fairly novel idea, that you could cast a spell at a higher level (sorry, manifest a power with more power points) to get a greater effect. The 3.5e version was more expansive than the 5e version – 5e still has charm person and charm monster as distinct spells, but in 3.5e you could pump more PPs into psionic charm to affect different creature types. This also had the side effect of creating intermediate versions – wizards get charm person as a 1st level spell to handle humanoids and charm monster as a 4th level spell for anything else, but psions could affect most natural creatures with the equivalent of a 2nd level spell and unnatural ones (outsiders, aberrations, etc) with a 3rd level effect. So I would like to see e.g. a single power that acts as jump when cast at 1st level, levitate at 2nd level, and fly at 3rd.
• Subclasses with distinct power lists. In 3.5, there was a fairly short core psion power list, but the cool stuff was limited to the lists you got access to with the different disciplines. So any psion could learn some "crude" telepathy like mind thrust or telempathic projection, but the cool stuff like charm, dominate, or mind probe was Telepath-only. That gave you an incentive to focus on your discipline, which meant you felt like you were discovering new aspects of the same core ability.

I would also in theory want a system where psions are better at typically psionic things than wizards, clerics, or sorcerers are, but that's the kind of thing that needs to be built into the system from the start.

 

[Deset Gled]

My desire for psionics is:

• It feels different than magic. It should have different mechanics than magic, and should not feel like a reskinned or augmented wizard or sorcerer.

100% with you here...

• It should evoke the tropes of Super Heroes and Force Users. I want the class to feel like Professor X, Nightcrawler, Johnny Storm, Green Lantern and other comic characters. In the case of Psychic Warriors, Jedi and Sith are good models.

... and you lost me.

IMNSHO, this sounds like yet another reskinned gish, which is just as bad as making it feel like a reskinned wizard or sorcerer. Just another fighter/magic hybrid. Again. Yawn. I may stand alone on this, but I really want my psion to be much more of a pure caster.

I haven't dug my teeth into the official playtest yet, but my biggest fear at a quick glace is that they're trying to cover both the "psion" and "soulknife" archetypes in one class. That's a mistake; they're two different things. And we've already done enough to make the soulknike happen with the warlock. No need to double up.

 

[Remathilis]

Eight years ago, I would have wanted a psionic system with a unique mechanism for casting. Power points, unique powers, etc. Today, I'm happy I have a psionic themed caster not bursting with tentacles.

That said, this is pretty close to what I would have liked. It's different enough that it doesn't look like it is just a sorcerer with mind magic, and not so different that I can't tell you what it does without reading it. A psion casting suggestion doesn't sound as exciting as a Mystic using some new power, but I know the rules and how to adjudicate it already.