D&D (2024) Psionics: What Do You Want?

I just want to take a moment to note that the Barbarian is probably one of the best dnd classes designed in terms of making people feel like a Barbarian. Honestly when I looked at the class, I was like "meh...kind of a dud".
But "barbarian" isn't the right term, while "berserker" makes more sense. A barbarian "raging" is a WotC thing. I don't see Conan "rage" when he fights. Screaming and yelling and throwing yourself into a fight does not a barbarian make.

And yet time and time again I have watched people play a barbarian in my game and transform. Normally timid players are screaming obscenities and launching themselves at monsters. There is just something so gosh darn simple and yet powerful about the barbarian mechanics that it truly plays far far FAR more uniquely than I would have ever thought reading it on paper.
Lucky you, then, I suppose, because I've never seen anything like that. Of course, I don't have much experience with players I would call "timid", either.

But you're missing my point I think. You're still just moving and attacking. Unless a player uses rage while performing a STR check outside of combat for advantage, I see nothing unique about the class really. It is too combat focused, like the fighter, to feel unique to me.

I could play a heavily-armored fighter who screams and launches themselves into a fight. Instead of taking the hits via half damage, he takes them via higher AC. The bonus rage damage is laughable, really, and STR-advantage only really helps with grapples/shoves, which I think in 2024 they changed anyway.

But experiences differ certainly. Regardless, the point was the psw's don't have anyting really unique about how they are played if they aren't casting a spell.

Anyway, this has little to do with psionics so if you feel like rage is enough to make a barbarian then fine, works for you I guess.
 

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They reuse spells all the time in 5e.

Warlocks can cast Levitate at-will, self only.
Dragon Sorcerer can summon a dragon without concentration.
And the UA psion can cast spells without verbal components, which works just fine.
I'm not complaining about spell reuse. I'm saying that spells and spell reuse has been part of the identity of the psion in 2e, 3.0, and 3.5 and anyone claiming they weren't a spellcaster is trying to retcon. I wish they weren't spellcasters with a splash of paint - but that's what they have been through most of D&D's history while they were a thing at all.

I mean what's the real difference between this and an ordinary spell in 3.5 other than a couple of minor tweaks?

Levitate, Psionic

Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2, psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 2
Display: Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: You or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to100 lb./level)
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
Power Points: 3
As the levitate spell, except as noted here.
Special: When a psion, wilder, or a psychic warrior manifests this power, the target is the manifester (not a willing creature or an object).
 

But you're missing my point I think. You're still just moving and attacking. Unless a player uses rage while performing a STR check outside of combat for advantage, I see nothing unique about the class really. It is too combat focused, like the fighter, to feel unique to me.
No I was directly addressing your point, because I used to think the same as you about the barbarian when I read through it. I also thought it seemed generic, not offering anything that was particularly interesting and fun.

And yet my experience has shown the class transcends the features on the page, there is something about it that really brings out fun in my player's experiences.

I respect your experience may not be the same, but I was surprised enough to see my original thoughts disputed in actual play that it was worth mentioning.
 




There are over 200 spells.
Even with 99% balance, that 1% is what everyone complains about.

Also, it's not in 2024.
It's not in the 2024 PHB... But it's in 2024 until they release a new version that supercedes the old one.

Same for alllll the other spells that have been written. Heritages, Feats, Etc.
 

Repeating myself? I've thought about this more.

I don't want something as complex as 3.x.
I want a class that can upscale things, by consuming their own lifeforce (hit die?). Possibly crystals or something else, but not a defiler (though maybe this is the chassis for that?).
I want one subclass that manipulates space and time.
One subclass that is all about using force to move things.
One subclass that controls others (even if only for an action or so).

I thought I wanted a subclass that has complete control over its own body, but that might be monk. OTOH, one that really goes all in on the weird creepy tentacle stuff and reshapes their own body? I'm for that.

abilities that allow for astral projection or other stuff like that? Yes please.

I've come around to the "just another spellcaster" being the only way we are getting psionics (though some of this really should be things they can do). What I want is the FLAVOR of the old psionic classes. With some abilities, some spells, some way to scale those spells.

I think Wizards, sorcerers, and psions suffer from their ability to do almost everything the other can do. If we had more restrictions on spells, and more emphasis on other things they can do, we'd get better distinction among the classes even if they largely are similar with spell slots.
 

Repeating myself? I've thought about this more.

I don't want something as complex as 3.x.
I want a class that can upscale things, by consuming their own lifeforce (hit die?). Possibly crystals or something else, but not a defiler (though maybe this is the chassis for that?).
I want one subclass that manipulates space and time.
One subclass that is all about using force to move things.
One subclass that controls others (even if only for an action or so).

I thought I wanted a subclass that has complete control over its own body, but that might be monk. OTOH, one that really goes all in on the weird creepy tentacle stuff and reshapes their own body? I'm for that.

abilities that allow for astral projection or other stuff like that? Yes please.

I've come around to the "just another spellcaster" being the only way we are getting psionics (though some of this really should be things they can do). What I want is the FLAVOR of the old psionic classes. With some abilities, some spells, some way to scale those spells.

I think Wizards, sorcerers, and psions suffer from their ability to do almost everything the other can do. If we had more restrictions on spells, and more emphasis on other things they can do, we'd get better distinction among the classes even if they largely are similar with spell slots.
I don't think the current version is even near perfect, but I think it's a good start - 1E psionic and 2E psionicist characters were practically spellcasters in all but name, just with a different resource management in manifesting/activating, relying on PSPs instead of Spell Slots, and the whole idea of power checks was from 2E, with 1E power activation just working if you could pay the points, and then either requiring a saving throw, or with attack/defense mode combat, a percent chance of success (basically a different kind of saving throw). 3E was more transparent in powers being analogous to spells, and 3.5 even more so. Complexity was always inherent in psionics, especially with 1E and 2E. 2E Psionicists could know up to 35 powers at level 20 - 2025 Psion caps out at 22 Spells, not counting any granted by their subclass, and 5E offers scalability on quite a few spells available to the new Psion.

It's definitely been much tougher to differentiate between Wizards, Psions, and Sorcerers, separate from all the other casters, because they have other clear abilities and niches that really highlight them - Warlocks have pact magic, pact abilities, and invocations, Druids have wild shape, bards have inspiration and their other bardic abilities, and so on. Sorcerers sort of have their niche abilities with sorcery points and subclasses, wizards are more defined by their reliance on spells and flexibilities in selecting them, and psions have an opportunity to carve their own niche with psi dice (less a mouthful than psionic energy dice, if the can abbreviate it), and subclass features based on disciplines. 3E pushed the scalability of psions by doing new psionic analogs of spells - half the time, they just pasted psionic in the front of the name, but a few times they did something new - Psionic Charm, for example, allowed higher point expenditure for more advanced versions of the charm spell (one power covered Charm Person, Charm Monster, Etc) - though 5E has done that with some spells (like Cure Wounds), others like Charm Person have multiple versions based on level - to make the Psion uniquely flexible, they could return to those roots and do scalable spells like Psionic Charm for the Psion List to allow some flexibility. Another thing to remove complexity and differentiate them from most casters could be to use the Warlock's spell slot advancement and short rest recovery (to emulate the faster power recuperation of 2E, for example), and maybe do devotion/science powers in place of invocations, for example?
 

1E psionic and 2E psionicist characters were practically spellcasters in all but name, just with a different resource management in manifesting/activating, relying on PSPs instead of Spell Slots, and the whole idea of power checks was from 2E, with 1E power activation just working if you could pay the points, and then either requiring a saving throw, or with attack/defense mode combat, a percent chance of success (basically a different kind of saving throw). 3E was more transparent in powers being analogous to spells, and 3.5 even more so.

For me, the mechanical differences like resource management are what (can) make psions critically different from other spellcasters. Then again, I also see the 3e sorcerer as being substantially different from the 3e wizard, so YMMV.

Also, FWIW, 3e was critically different from spellcasting in other ways. The most notable was that different powers used different ability score. E.G. some powers were based on Int or WIS or Cha, but others were based on Con, DEX, or even Str. There were no dump stats, only dumped schools. It was the ultimate MAD.
 

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