Psionics: Worth adding in?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

This is one argument I have never agreed with, because it assumes the psion is casting only high level spells, and ignores the factthat psions do not scale for free. Should i berate a 15th level caster who casts 15d6 flamestrikes, delayed Blast fireballs and such, and suggestthey throw 5d6 fireballs instead? Of course not.

Wizards will always win the direct-damage war.

But psions have lots of save-or-suffer powers that require minimal scaling.

 

[Someone]

The fact that you are ignoring with this statement is that the spellcaster can only cast so many delayed Blast fireballs before they are done. Then they have to cast other spells (either of a different level in the case of a bard/sorcerer/etc or one's that they picked when they meditated).

Actually, that´s exactly his point, the fact that paying the cost of a 5th level spell slot a cleric can deal 15d6 damage, while the psion need to pay the cost of a 8th level power to do so (less actually because of damage bonuses for Fire).

That of course assume the psion is just using direct damage spells, and not utility or save or die. Save or die powers are however not so good, but even then there are other very good combat, non-damaging powers. And there´s Astral Construct.

I don´t think psionics is so good at overspending PPs unless you count powers that allow multiple manifestations per round: Schism, Temporal Acceleration and Fission, and being able to Quicken.

 

[Malum]

I don’t know if I’m “preaching to the Psionic choir” or not but here it goes

Psionic vs. arcane vs. divine
I see many people posting that Psions are over powered and the like. I think those people are failing to see the obvious or chose to underestimate the impact of the following: If you allow Psionics in a campaign and have a Psion PC then you open the door to be battling enemy Psions, ergo the balance. Your DM may keep Psionics as a rare separate power or may and probably should look into the Psionic/magic bridge allowing the two to affect each other. Now as far as class comparison there will always be a certain level of bias of opinion & ambiguity involved stemmed from personal preference but from a “seemingly neutral corner” I think the Cleric & Druid are better rounded than the arcane & Psionic casters. In a solo campaign the Cleric or Druid I think would have the lowest mortality rate vs. other pc class choices, imo. That is they will survive moreso than other classes. Albeit for sheer raw power blowing as many away at once the Wizard/Sorcerer and Psion have the greatest potential, hence the ambiguity.

Manefesters & spell casters vs non
My point of view is that any spell-casting (including manefesters) class will be over powered to any non spell-casting class 99% of the time and that 1% is only do to magicals created by a spell-casting class, or just plain good lucky rolling! Example a 10th level Rogue, 10th fighter, 10th Barbarian will all be decimated by a 10th level Druid, 10th Wizard, 10th Sorcerer, 10th Cleric or 10th Psion 90% of the time. In order for the spell-casters / manefesters to loose they would have to be out played and out rolled. This is a bold statement that will usually spark an emotional response, I would rather have a pragmatic response such as “ok sure spellcasters manefesters have the edge from 8th level on but from 1st level to 5th level it’s the other classes that dominate and can be considered on par from 5th until 8th”

Now back to Psions
Psions are a dominate force in any party. With 3 feats expanded knowledge-Astral Construct, another exp know feat -Schism and yet another exp know feat of teleport my Kineticist was and still is a very potent arsenal, mobile w/ a top notch body guard.

Problem is at high level I have noticed 18th level and above the Psions powers wane in comparison to wizards, Clerics, Druids & Sorcerers. The Psions high level powers 8th / 9th level are #1) few to chose from (short list) #2) at least ½ the powers are like a second class citizen in comparison. But there ability to manipulate powers is there saving grace.

Recap/summary
Psions like Wizards & Sorcerers at 1st thru 4th levels are cannon fodder, its 5th thru 15th that they really shine, IMO. Psion Kineticist has greater versatility than a Wizard Blaster build of same level in that they can chose energy type at manifestation as where the wizard must dedicate a spell slot to a variety if he wishes to cover all bases. The Psion may continually pound with any power that seems to be effective as where the Wizard must “guess” what’s going to be useful for the upcoming day of encounters; in fact he must ironically be the psychic. The biggest pro for the Wizard is he has access to the most awe inspiring & powerful spells and he may completely change from day to day seemingly becoming a different opponent all together. This is taking into consideration that a Wizard is dependant upon his spell selection and he can completely change this selection from day to day by simply memorizing different spells. Like a Sorcerer the Psion has the predetermined list but he has the more rapid progression = to that of a Wizard and enjoys the versatility of choosing energy type as no other class can, in this the Psion is unique.

Summary Psion is different yet in the long stretch of things remains equal.

Malum (Cerebramancer)