Psionics: Worth adding in?

[Tyrion]

I'm thinking of adding in the psionics rules to my fairly combat-heavy, social-interaction light 3.5 campaign.

Are the psionic classes balanced and interesting? Are they outshined by wizards or clerics? In a three or four person party, is it good option to substitute a psionic class for one of the more "core" classes?

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm curious as to how well the psionic rules work, mechanically-speaking, now that people have had plenty of time to use and evaluate the rules. Thanks in advance.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm thinking of adding in the psionics rules to my fairly combat-heavy, social-interaction light 3.5 campaign.

Are the psionic classes balanced and interesting? Are they outshined by wizards or clerics? In a three or four person party, is it good option to substitute a psionic class for one of the more "core" classes?

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm curious as to how well the psionic rules work, mechanically-speaking, now that people have had plenty of time to use and evaluate the rules. Thanks in advance.

You have to be a "Mean DM" to keep Psionics balanced. Psions can "spelldump" even faster than other casters and as such you really have to force the party into more encounters even if the PCs try to pop off and go rest. If you let them sleep whenever they want to, Psionic characters become far too strong.

Save My Game Article on adding in psionics
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060310a

Rules of the game articles on psionics
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060606a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060613a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060620a

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yes, if you like it. A DM adding in a new system should read it over and over.

I'd suggest going to the WotC forums... but you will only get biased opinions there (generally stating that anything that appears horribly broken is in fact perfectly balanced). There's a few people with really biased opinions here, too (against psionics), but they can't snowball you as there's not enough of them.

My suggestion is not to be afraid to nerf Energy Missile or any other obviously unbalanced powers. Unfortunately, the XPH has a few unbalanced things in it, the same way the core rules do. (I'd also avoid Fission or anything else that gives you extra actions.)

 

[Henry]

Tyrion, it's a perfect time to check out Skip Williams' "Psionics Primer" column on the Wizards D&D site which JUST this week finished wrapping up. It's supposed to be specifically for DMs who are hesistant about psionics because they're unfamiliar with them.

Add to this that the basic psionics classes, rules, and powers are on www.d20srg.org for free, and it's worth checking out.

I can say from personal experience we've had no problems with it, though psionics are really balanced by having more than one encounter before a rest period. If your group's party only has one big encounter, and then a peaceful uninterrupted rest in between, the psions will come out a bit ahead in power.

 

[frankthedm]

There's a few people with really biased opinions here, too, but they can't snowball you.

Is that supposed to be insinuating something, bub? I'll have you know...

...I am very biased against psionics.

That does not change psionic characters being good at blowing their PP really quick.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Tyrion, it's a perfect time to check out Skip Williams' "Psionics Primer" column on the Wizards D&D site which JUST this week finished wrapping up.

I disagree heatedly with this statement. The first three articles created three complaint threads on the WotC psionics board ... and for once, the strength of bias wasn't so strong as to drown out the legitimate complaints.

Unfortunately, there's no good resource for starting psionics DMs. There's a thread for "new psionic DMs" at the WotC boards, but it's biased and refuses to admit there are overpowered powers.

Is that supposed to be insinuating something, bub? I'll have you know...

...I am very biased against psionics.

Well, obviously I'm insinuating something, but I wasn't thinking about you. From what little I've seen you say, you're reasonable about psionics and not a frothing psi-hater.

That does not change psionic characters being good at blowing their PP really quick.

I agree with you. And that would get me flamed at the WotC boards. (Heck, it has gotten me flamed there.)

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I disagree heatedly with this statement. The first three articles created three complaint threads on the WotC psionics board ... and for once, the strength of bias wasn't so strong as to drown out the legitimate complaints.

I think the biggest problem with the Rules of the Game is that ignored the biggest machanical differences of psionics, namely psionic focus and augmentation.

Back to the orriginal question:

I think psionics are worth adding, mainly because psionics are fun.

And yes because of the way power points work, in a game where there is only one encounter before resting, psionicist will have an advantage.

In terms of party composition, a psion makes a pretty good replacement for a wizard, while a psychic warrior can serve as a primary fighter. Both do somethings better and other things not as well (psions are good blasters, but at buffing) but on the average they are pretty good fits.

 

[Thanee]

Combat-heavy probably means many combats per day, which is a good start to keep psionics in check (since psionics are not balanced, they have to be kept in check ).

Are the psionic classes balanced and interesting?

There are quite some balance issues with magic in the core rules already. Psionics are similar, just worse as they deviate from the mean even further. It's fairly easy to make unbalanced psionic characters, which does not necessarily mean, that they are completely overpowered... in particular, they will probably be uber effective in some combats and then not so much afterwards (which by itself is pretty unbalanced).

Interesting is a matter of personal preferance. To me... no, they are not particulary interesting. Psions are way too similar to Wizards and Sorcerers, just with worse mechanics (from a balance point of view). There is no need for them. Others like their flavor. Others especially like the mechanics. As I said, it's a matter of personal preferance, whether they are considered interesting or not.

If you and your group, and those are the only people that really count, think they might be interesting, then it's certainly worth checking out. But be warned, you need to thoroughly read and understand the rules, before you can use them reasonably well. They are quite different to the core magic rules, altho similar in many areas.

Are they outshined by wizards or clerics?

Certainly not. Psions are the top rank of the most powerful classes, at least the same level as Clerics and Druids.

In a three or four person party, is it good option to substitute a psionic class for one of the more "core" classes?

As a 'substitute', the psionic classes can certainly be used in similar roles as many of the core classes. The Psion and Wilder are similar to the Wizard or the Sorcerer in that way, and the Psychic Warrior (and to a degree the Soulknife) is closest to the Fighter (altho, a bit different). I think there is also a psionic healer class in Complete Psionics (Ardent?), and a psionic rogue (Lurker), and some other psionic classes. There is also a psionic rogue (kinda like the Psychic Warrior, just replacing fighter-stuff with rogue-stuff) on the Wizard's website.

One thing where psionic characters are rather bad is buffing the party. That's one of their big weaknesses in a party environment.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Unkabear]

If a player wants to powergame/munchkin he will. In my opinion Psionics can add a good flavor to any game. Be weary of a Kinetisist, aside from that encourage your player to have a balanced power list. And let them know that you will take executive right to remove any power of your choosing. Depending on your playstyle depends on if removing Energy Missle is on your board. hitting up to five monsters can be a great boon...but when there are fifty Orcs running at you it is just blowing pp to lower the numbers of the hoard to get to the Big monster that is the whole point of the encounter in the first place. And many powers have little combat value but great rp value.

If you have a particularly munchkiny player watch out. But if you have someone that wants to give it a try then let them...you can always kill them off and ban Psionics if it doesn't work out. or better yet corrupt them and make them the BBEG of a particular story arc.

Besides there is little difference between ectoplasmic constructs and summoning. positive and negative aspects to both. well worth the fun if you have a player that can stat things out before game time so as not to drag down the game to create a creature all the time.

 

[airwalkrr]

I have always liked psionics (even in AD&D when they were horribly broken, but I digress). They add a neat little element to the game. I don't think it would hurt much to try them out. Actually the biggest problem I can see is not from a balance perspective but from a world background perspective. Why are psionics showing up suddenly? Have they been around all along and your party never encountered or talked about them? Are they something new that most people haven't heard of? That could be a bigger challenge than getting players unused to psionics from power-gaming.

I have a few small suggestions, having run and played in some Eberron stuff plus a couple of home campaigns that use psionics.

1) Keep psionic characters on their toes. If you let them blow all their power points on one battle, and then rest, things get out of hand quickly. Don't let them rest easily. If they are in a dungeon and teleport out or put up a rope trick to rest after every encounter, then have the bad guys respond by bringing full force against them in the next fight (the PCs lost the element of surprise after all). Note this problem is much more pronounced at higher levels.
2) Use the psionics-magic transparency rule. Otherwise things like spell resistance and dispel magic become nerfed. There is little more disappointing than when the psion says to the party, "Step aside, the Rakshasa can't resist my powers."
3) Make sure to balance the encounters with psionic monsters/characters and treasure with the characters in the party. If you use nothing but MM creatures and DMG treasure, the psionic characters in your party never get anything useful out of treasure and have to buy everything they want which gives them a lower gp value overall.

If you keep these things in mind, I think you'll have a blast with the system. My group and I have many times over.