Psionics: Yea or Nay?

[Desdichado]

Umm, Vancian isn't the main magic system in D&D. Hasn't been for a couple of years now.

I made a point of making this an edition neutral topic in terms of psionics, so I think that applies to magic too.

Plus, it's not like all those earlier edition D&D books just up and disappeared after 4e was released.

 

[Ariosto]

double post

 

[Ariosto]

Absent details of a specific implementation, "the very concept itself" is just a vague one of "mysterious powers of the mind".

In OD&D and AD&D, that covers more than purely psychic phenomena. Teleportation, for instance, is thoroughly physical.

The association was a byproduct of the trend to dress up magic in atheistic drag that was superficially more plausible to the modern mind. That is still big business in the world beyond honest fantasy fiction. In the 1970s, not only was there another boom in interest in allegedly real "psychic powers" (along with resurgent spiritualism), but popular fiction and film -- such as Carrie and Escape to Witch Mountain -- capitalized on the fascination.

Adventure novel series such as Andre Norton's "Witch World" and Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Darkover" were also hits. If memory serves, both (along with Moorcock's "Elric" and much else) got filed under "science fiction" in the 1960s-70s, the "fantasy" section not really burgeoning until the 1980s.

The term 'psionics', I think, had attained even wider currency than formerly via comicbooks and television in the 1960s. Rules for powers so termed appeared both in D&D Supplement III (1976) and in Traveller Book 3 (1977).

 

[Mallus]

If memory serves, both (along with Moorcock's "Elric" and much else) got filed under "science fiction" in the 1960s-70s, the "fantasy" section not really burgeoning until the 1980s.

Every bookstore I can think of still shelves fantasy and science fiction together.

And Darkover is the reverse of fantasy-in-SF-drag. It's explicitly "lost colony" SF --the planet Darkover even has a very Trek-ish original name: Cottman IV-- dressed up as pseudo-Medieval fantasy, complete with a good deal of 'magical' psionic technology. At least one of the later books is takes place off-planet in the human space federation.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I like the concept of psionics and think it has a strong claim to a place in pulpy swords-n-sorcery and (especially) swords-n-planet fantasy, but I'm unsatisfied with the implementations I'm familiar with. I love the feel and tone of OD&D and 1e psionics (e.g. the attack and defense mode names), but I don't like the rules mechanisms.

I've considered various implementations at different times. I've never given the 2e or 3e versions of psionics serious consideration (i.e. I'm not familiar with them), but using Gamma World mental mutations or using something like Rolemaster's Mentalism system both hold some promise, for me.

 

[Desdichado]

Absent details of a specific implementation, "the very concept itself" is just a vague one of "mysterious powers of the mind".

Yes. And that vague notion is still controversial in the D&D audience, hence my desire to spark discussion on it again.

Adventure novel series such as Andre Norton's "Witch World" and Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Darkover" were also hits. If memory serves, both (along with Moorcock's "Elric" and much else) got filed under "science fiction" in the 1960s-70s, the "fantasy" section not really burgeoning until the 1980s.

I still have not seen a fantasy section at any bookstore or library I've ever visited, since the 80s or otherwise. From a publishing and marketing standpoint, fantasy and science fiction are exactly the same thing. The distinction we make between them is just a fandom thing.

The term 'psionics', I think, had attained even wider currency than formerly via comicbooks and television in the 1960s.

I don't think psionics has anything like a wide currency anywhere except in RPGiana. Otherwise, it's just called "psychic powers" or some such label.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Wasn't there a spell called "clone" in AD&D?

There's ESP in OD&D, 1e and 2e, renamed Detect Thoughts in 3e. Infravision, Massmorph, Dimension Door.

Disintegrate (1790-1800), Ventriloquism (1790-1800), Polymorph (1820-30), Hallucinatory Terrain (1820-30 for hallucinate), Phantasmal Forces (1805-15 for phantasmal)

I got those dates from dictionary.com, dunno how reliable it is. I'm sure the OED would be better.

 

[Pseudonym]

I haven't cared much for psionics in any edition. I'm more open to settings such as Dark Sun or Eberron where psionics don't feel tacked on after the fact, but even so I'm not a fan.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I voted hesitantly. I didn't like the psionic rules in 1st ed and haven't bothered looking at them in any other. The reason I voted as I did, rather than a flat-out no, is that I have no problem with them in the original Palladium FRPG. And, for what its worth, the magic in T&T (at least the 5th ed) is all psionic.

To the poster above who thinks that only fans are aware of the term, I would suggest that you consider the huge amount of sci-fi that uses it that has been on the screen, big and small, over the past few decades.

 

[Ariosto]

By "filed under", I mean that "Science Fiction" is what's printed right on the covers of old editions on my shelves.

It went back and forth, actually. I have Norton's 'Ware Hawk in a Sept. 1984 Del Rey "Ballantine/Fantasy Adventure" cover, and her and A.C. Crispin's Gryphon's Eyrie in a March 1985 Tor Books "science fiction" billing.

I don't think psionics has anything like a wide currency anywhere except in RPGiana.

Considering how apparently taken for granted the term was in Eldritch Wizardry in 1976, I think that -- whatever the case today -- the situation in the 1970s assumed familiarity from elsewhere.

The introduction of psionic combat is bound to enliven games grown stagnant. It opens up untold possibilities for both the players and the DM, and in so doing recognizes one of the favorite topics of science fiction and fantasy writers: the unknown powers of the mind.