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Psion's list of rules from 3.5 he will NOT be using...

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KDLadage

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If you have not seen it, Psion's signature includes a listing of the 3.5 rules he will NOT be using. I have some thoughts on those rules and wondered if you did too. Also, what other rules will you avoid?

So... Psion's listing:
3.5 rules I won't be using (the list grows!): 1)Square facings 2)School Specialization 3)Nerfed spell focus 4)Doubled power attack damage 5)Deflect arrows 6)Pokemon Paladins
  • Square facings -- this rule actually makes sense to me. It took me a long time to warm up to it, to understand what it was trying to simulate. Once I understood it, I had to start wondering why it was not like this from the beginning.

    Whan a typical fighter is standing in his 5 ft. by 5 ft. square, he has no "front" or "back" sides. He simply is. He occupies the whole of the square he is in. Nowhere are you going to find a man that is actually a 5 ft. by 5 ft. by 5 ft. cube... so you must assume that the fact that he has no facing is why he takes up his whole square -- he is moving about in his sphere of influence and ensuring that no atack is coming from any given direction.

    So why then does a horse (or any other larger creature) have a defined front, a defined back and a space that tries to emulate his actual shape? Because it is an inconsitency in the rules -- that's why.

    The solution: either make all creatures take up a square of space, or give all creatures facing rules. I would have prefered the latter; the former will work in a pinch.
  • School Specialization -- never liked School Specialization. In UMBRAGIA Volume III, I did a re-worked version of it. In the end, I want to go back and re-think my assumptions on it as well -- I am not satisfied with it as it stands. Expect that sometime after Volume IV is done. I will be handling School Specialization (I think) as a series of Prestige Classes in the end...
  • Nerfed spell focus -- could not agree with you more.
  • Doubled power attack damage -- don't know yet. I need to see it in play. What is your objection, exactly?
  • Deflect arrows -- don't know yet. I need to see it in play. What is your objection, exactly?
  • Pokemon Paladins -- of the rules that make no sense to me, this one takes the cake. I cannot imagine what they were thinking when they came up with the Pokemon Palidin concept... was the CCG division sitting in for someone that day?
 
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I believe they are calling it pokemon paladin because he can randomly summon his magic mount for a certain amount of time per day (after which it vanishes).

Just imagine a paladin carrying around a poke-ball.

As a comment to the initial poster - I will definitely be fighting to keep spell focus at it's current state (+2 DC) - 3.5 has made the feat entirely useless. I'm ok if we eliminate the possibility of taking Greater Spell Focus...+4 does seem a little overpowering. See - I can compromise!
 
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Zogg said:
I believe they are calling it pokemon paladin because he can randomly summon his magic mount for a certain amount of time per day (after which he vanishes).

Just imagine a paladin carrying around a poke-ball.

Actually, I've just noticed that an advanced 6HD shocker lizard is size Large....
 

Square facings I might use, depending on what supplementary rules they have and how well they are done- i.e., fighting in another creature's square, going through doors, etc.

School Specialization: Don't like it. Diviners are already the most powerful specialists in 3.0, this is just going to reinforce that.

Nerfed Spell Focus: Spell Focus was always poorly designed. It benefits some schools way too much and some not at all. I'll be changing it to +1DC and +1 caster level, with greater spell focus giving an extra +1 to each.

Doubled Power Attack: I'll wait to see the math. I want to know how frequently it's advantageous; if it's something that's used the majority of the time, it's too good for the kind of special manuever feat that it is.

Deflect Arrows: The new one isn't broken, it's just stupid. The idea that I have to fire two arrows at a 2nd level monk to hit them is very, very silly. If I can beat Uncanny Dodge with 4 more levels of rogue, I should be able to shoot a monk with an archer higher level than him. I'll definitely be going with Sean Reynolds' old take (beat the DC by 5 to snatch).

Pokemon Paladins: The apt name says it all: no.
 

Zogg said:
I believe they are calling it pokemon paladin because he can randomly summon his magic mount for a certain amount of time per day (after which it vanishes).

Just imagine a paladin carrying around a poke-ball.



Sounds like they took it straight out of Neverwinter Nights. This is how druids used their animal companions and how spellcasters used their familiars.
 

Square facing I wont be using, cause I dont use minatures.

The paladin rule is kinda silly, thought it may work in a high magic campign. Though if a palidin can summon, r call, or whatever, his mount, then a wizard or sorc. should be able to summon his familiar. To have a fighter with more magical ablities than the magic-users is just week.

All the other rules I will just have to wait until I get some time with the books.
 

KDLadage said:
If you have not seen it, Psion's signature includes a listing of the 3.5 rules he will NOT be using. I have some thoughts on those rules and wondered if you did too. Also, what other rules will you avoid?

I assume my collected thoughts are complete so far.

But let me touch on a few:

So... Psion's listing:
Square facings -- this rule actually makes sense to me. It took me a long time to warm up to it, to understand what it was trying to simulate.[/b]

Oh, I understand what it is trying to do. The problem is that it forgets what miniatures are trying to do in the first place -- represent creatures.

Whan a typical fighter is standing in his 5 ft. by 5 ft. square, he has no "front" or "back" sides. He simply is. He occupies the whole of the square he is in. Nowhere are you going to find a man that is actually a 5 ft. by 5 ft. by 5 ft. cube... so you must assume that the fact that he has no facing is why he takes up his whole square -- he is moving about in his sphere of influence and ensuring that no atack is coming from any given direction.

So why then does a horse (or any other larger creature) have a defined front, a defined back and a space that tries to emulate his actual shape? Because it is an inconsitency in the rules -- that's why.

Why? Because the first purpose of minatures is to represent their shape.

No inconsistency exists because there is no hit location chart in 3e, so it really doesn't matter that the base shows a theoretical shape. It's like an abstract snapshot of where the creature is.

If you are bent out of shape because you are seeing a snapshot of the creature's positional shape, then how do you feel about the fact that movement in the game is happening in discrete blocks? That should bother you too.

The solution: either make all creatures take up a square of space, or give all creatures facing rules.

This "solution" is to a problem that doesn't exist, since 3e does not track specific hit locations.

School Specialization -- never liked School Specialization. In UMBRAGIA Volume III (...)

So obviously you won't be using this either. :)

That said, I am sort of warming up to the concept.

Andy Collins seems to indicate that the schools will be more balanced. My big problem is that if this effort is successful, the school changes will be anything but transparent and will change the feel of magic in the game, and it is not transparent to existing specialist characters who will have to swap out whole schools of spells, which will create continuity problems.

In short, if done right, this is a change that would be just fine for a new campaign but futzes big time with existing campaigns that use specialists as (say) major villains or PCs.

And this pretty much represents the biggest departure from the promise of "doing no harm" and "being able to quickly convert the characters."

Nerfed spell focus -- could not agree with you more.
Doubled power attack damage -- don't know yet. I need to see it in play. What is your objection, exactly?

Power attack ALREADY will be made a must-have by the new DR rules. And two-handed weapon fighters benefit the most from the power attack, so this seems like it will really overemphasize the two-hander fighter, which is already a pretty strong type of fighter. I prefer more equally viable options.

Deflect arrows -- don't know yet. I need to see it in play. What is your objection, exactly?

Well, in addition to my general disdain for "automatic" type mechanics because they tend to invariable lead to trouble, I feel at low levels it is a bit too effective. I think Andy's complaints could have been effectively handled by lowering the DR and avoiding the "automatic" bugbear.

Add to that, I think snatch arrows is not as neat or useful as he thinks, but this is an existing problem from S&F. IMC, you can snatch arrows with deflect arrows if your roll is high enough.

The whole "6/17 update" thread goes into gory details about this.

Pokemon Paladins -- of the rules that make no sense to me, this one takes the cake. I cannot imagine what they were thinking when they came up with the Pokemon Palidin concept...[/list] [/B]

I know exactly what they were thinking. A general design criteria of this edition was "let's make everyone at their best in the dungeon." Which is a design criteria I venomously disagree with. It makes D&D much more specialized that it needs to be, and does not reflect how it is really played IMV. Take a look at some published adventures, for example. Many involve things like overland journeys, plots in cities, army struggles, and so forth. D&D is NOT all about the dungeon.

I find the summoned warhorse really silly. It reminds me of summon materia in FFVII ... which is not silly, but definitely NOT my image of a paladin. That's not a paladin; it's a summoner.

I could see this as a spell or maybe a feat. NOT as a class ability.


As a side note, the new DR rules are also concerning me, and I am really seeing the point on the golfbag arguments and when it comes to issues like outsiders and parties having to carry weapons they normally would not. I think the aligned DR thing is the most potentially problematic.
 
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The paladin ability to summon a celestial mount is wonderful in my opinion. Traditionally, mounted feats are useless and the warhorse class ability seldom if ever gets used; you just can't bring a horse into houses and dungeons and caves, and when a fight breaks out you have no time to run to the stable and get it. So, as the rules are now, what's a bonded mount good for? Err... overland travel. The same thing a regular horse is good for.

Giving paladin's the ability to summon their mount partially solves this problem. I think it's a great idea, because it allows the paladin more truly valid choices for tactical combat. I'm all for it.
 

Re: Re: Psion's list of rules from 3.5 he will NOT be using...

Psion said:


I find the summoned warhorse really silly. It reminds me of summon materia in FFVII ... which is not silly, but definitely NOT my image of a paladin.

I could see this as a spell or maybe a feat. NOT as a class ability.



Hmm. I actually like this ability. I think you might want to look further afield for examples from non-RPG sources. Watch Terry Gilliam's "Adventures of Baron Munchausen" for example. The Baron uses the same ability in that film, with his horse, Bucephalus, appearing out of nowhere when he needs it - it's very magical and very much in keeping with a high fantasy/epic legend feel.
 

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