Publishers Opinion Of PCGen

[Leopold]

Please tell me I am not looking at the right page or something.

If I am right, this is the kind of thing I am talking about. Blatant disregard for the "easy stuff" from the license. Not saying "Dungeons and Dragons" except as allowed is the easy part. If they cant get that right, why should I trust them to do right the invisible stuff that I cant see?

I really hope I am wrong and that is some old page I was viewing.

Clark

simple oopsie that hadn't been corrected. Since most of us as jonas said are code and data monkies we usually leave that page alone. Heck it only gets updated when the current builds are put out there.

Jonas said it's fixed, check it out now. It's much...mmm..tamer.

 

[Orcus]

I dont need tame. Compliant will do

That's much better. You removed Dungeons and Dragons and Star Wars. That should meet the terms of the license, at least for that page. You should review all connected pages to make sure there is no unapproved trademark usage going on.

Getting that blatantly bad stuff off of your front page should help you get to being compliant with Anthony, I would imagine.

Clark

 

[jujutsunerd]

I dont need tame. Compliant will do

We aims ta please. Really.

That's much better. You removed Dungeons and Dragons and Star Wars. That should meet the terms of the license, at least for that page.

I hope so. As I said, law confuses me. Removing everything seemed like it should be safe...

You should review all connected pages to make sure there is no unapproved trademark usage going on.

I will leave that to Bryan, in my timezone it's getting to be way past bedtime for me...

Getting that blatantly bad stuff off of your front page should help you get to being compliant with Anthony, I would imagine.

Thanks for the heads-up, by the way. I haven't really read that webpage for months. It just kind of blurs by as I click links.

Wonder what else we have forgotten about?

/Jonas

 

[Arnix]

Man, Orcus you read more of the PCGen page than the PCGen main people

Can tell they are a bunch of code monkeys not web masters. Oh wait, the web page layout and design gave that away. Not that I can do any better. I hammer code not html.


Arnix (tm)

 

[Cergorach]

Wonder what else we have forgotten about?

Maybe it's time you went over the entire site with a small comb, or you could use CTRL+F in the html pages ;-)

 

[Orcus]

But see, that is sort of what I am talking about. Sloppiness. Sloppiness with legalities. Sloppiness with intellectual property. As a game company I actually own very little: the rights to my products. It makes me uneasy to license or allow use of my content (I mean PI, not OGC) to a company that is sloppy. I will admit they seem eager to comply, but it also seems that they are more worried about code than anything else. As a publisher, code is the least of my worries. Sloppiness with intellectual property and compliance is one of my primary worries. I dont want to have to police this. Like I said, I'll wait and see.

Clark

 

[Archimedes]

But see, that is sort of what I am talking about. Sloppiness. Sloppiness with legalities. Sloppiness with intellectual property. As a game company I actually own very little: the rights to my products. It makes me uneasy to license or allow use of my content (I mean PI, not OGC) to a company that is sloppy. I will admit they seem eager to comply, but it also seems that they are more worried about code than anything else. As a publisher, code is the least of my worries. Sloppiness with intellectual property and compliance is one of my primary worries. I dont want to have to police this. Like I said, I'll wait and see.

Clark

You've got at least one other asset in addition to IP, the goodwill of your customers. Though you've got just a little less of that than you did four days ago.

I mean, remember, this is a public forum. It's not your opposition to PCGen that looks bad, that's understandable, it's that bullying lord & master tone you're using.

Those PCGen guys aren't a company; they're a gang, they're a mob, they're a bunch of goofballs. Outer circle Fred's over here posting an inflammatory note and inner circle Barney doesn't even know about it until the fertilizer hits him. You're actually griping about Fred & Barney being sloppy

They're just regular old gamers, really.

Do you remember when you were a regular old gamer?

I'm just another player. I don't work for a game company. I use PCGen, though I'm not involved with developing it. Because of my views on their user interface they probably wouldn't have me anyway.

I'm really looking forward to Tome of Horrors! I'm going to buy it, but please remember you're one of us.

Sam

 

[Twin Rose]

I mean, remember, this is a public forum. It's not your opposition to PCGen that looks bad, that's understandable, it's that bullying lord & master tone you're using.

Those PCGen guys aren't a company; they're a gang, they're a mob, they're a bunch of goofballs. Outer circle Fred's over here posting an inflammatory note and inner circle Barney doesn't even know about it until the fertilizer hits him. You're actually griping about Fred & Barney being sloppy

This thread wasn't called, "Please support us no matter what you really think" it was called "Publishers - give us your thoughts." No reason to silver coat how you feel about something, one way or the other, when oppinion is what is asked for.

Whether they are fan-based, or a part of the community, is a matter of subjective oppinion. The peace corps is certainly not a company, and they do fantastic work around the world, but they too must follow the same rules that a company doing the same work would have to follow. Why? Because they are a powerful force and without rules, you have chaos.

Clark is an intelligent man, with a background and history of knowing what he's talking about. I hope his words, concise and to the point as they are, reach many ears of people who may be in 'shady areas' of OGL legality and think twice. Sugar coating it might make people think, "Oh, that's okay then ..." And once more, you have chaos.

Just some thoughts, not even expressing my own oppinions save for my respect that Clark is welling to stick out his neck and say "this is what I believe".

 

[Cergorach]

Twin, no offense, but your not exactly impartial in this matter, your the competition. A competitor that uses closed software so that no one can check whether it's OGL/D20 compliant. You speak against PcGen, but for some strange reason you have yet to prove whether your own software is compliant or not, but that's actually for another discussion.

I agree, make the Laws strickt. But be wise in their application.

Orcus is one of us, but he's also an evil Lawyer that goes by the business name of Orcus (;-) He knows a lot of stuff about legal matters and is a veteran in the D20 publishing business. But what he also must understand that Wizards gave everyone in the publishing branche a grace period, i think even Orcus made mistakes. The problem with PcGen (and other software projects) is that it just entered it's grace period, and it might be wise to be a bit more helpfull instead of being condesenting. It's almost like saying to a little kid that fell into the pond "You can't swim, that's pretty stupid, not? Better learn it quickly!" and walk away.

When someone asks an opinion you can respond in a couple of ways, friendly/unfriendly, honest/dishonest, helpfull/unhelpfull. I personally like to be treade friendly, honest and helpfull. Being honest and friendly are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Twin Rose]

Twin, no offense, but your not exactly impartial in this matter, your the competition. A competitor that uses closed software so that no one can check whether it's OGL/D20 compliant. You speak against PcGen, but for some strange reason you have yet to prove whether your own software is compliant or not, but that's actually for another discussion.

Can't really have it both ways, can you? Either they a fan-based application, or competition for a D20 publisher which makes them a D20 publisher.

I don't HAVE to prove my compliance to everyone who comes along. Noone HAS to prove their compliance, but I've gone out of my way - for months - to work with Anthony Valterra and others to demonstrate my compliance. It's not about proof at all.

Of course I can be impartial, it isn't about competition. It's about what is right and fair - it's about preserving the license for others. I wasn't even giving my own oppinion of PCGen or the folks there - whom I met, and enjoyed meeting - but rather defending the fact that Clark was honest in expressing his beliefs.

The relationship I enjoy with D20 publishers is that none of their information - IP or OGC - finds its way hard-coded into my application. That means they are 'off the hook' no matter what, there is no hazy gray area that THEY need to worry about. Everything is stored in a single, text-based file that anyone can read and understand. (Well, maybe not anyone, not everyone speeks english).