Put 4th Edition and Pathfinder Together for 5E

[Ahnehnois]

3.X D&D is a great game, but flawed. PF is a minor revision of 3.X that plays well but fixes none of its major issues. 4e is a reaction to 3.X that also fixes none of its major issues but introduces a host of new ones that managed to turn away a huge number of loyal fans.

I would hope that 5e designers would take a critical look at the whole of D&D and the larger rpg market, and would make a new flagship game based on what works and what doesn't. Hopefully this game would retain the flexibility and modularity of 3e, but would be simpler and easier to use, have a softer power curve and better balance, and have innovative mechanics to better model reality and fiction and serve a variety of styles. PF does not fit that bill and is no simpler than 3.X and 4e is more complicated and less flexible so I would hope that the final product does not look like either of them.

 

[Shadeydm]

I hope the core release of 5E will be a base from which the DM and pick and choose modules to build a game modeling any edition including 1E and 2E. I'm not sure if starting somewhere between 3E and 4E is the way to get there.

 

[Mallus]

I want 5e to be simpler and faster-in-play than either 4e or Pathfinder... and I say this as someone who enjoys both of those systems.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's not D&D if restoring an arm is easier than raising the dead.

 

[Dausuul]

No.

I want a game that's a successor to BD&D and AD&D as much as 3e and 4e.

I must spread some XP around, but I agree with this. Several members of my group, including me, are getting sour on 4E, but we have zero desire to return to the 3E era. We want the speed and simplicity of BD&D (preferably without the incoherence and imbalance).

 

[ren1999]

Most of you said that you don't want a mash-up but didn't go into detail about what you do want.

I too like the simplicity of the original and 1st edition, but it shouldn't be as simple as attack versus armor class.

Of course giving an antidote to someone who is poisoned is easier than raising them from the dead. If you don't care about how difficult a power is why give it a spell level? Should a 1st level cleric be able to raise the dead?

Some of you are just arguing just to argue. How about some suggestions of your own.

 

[Halivar]

Nah. Just give the rules to me in modular fashion and let me build the edition I want. I always like the Avalon Hill "Optional Rules" method, and I'd be comfortable with that for D&D.

 

[Bobbum Man]

4th Edition really shines in the math and balancing area.
Pathfinder shines in retaining the previous edition's powers.

Combine them.
Specifically

Use Pathfinder's Beginner Box instructions for generating a character but add 4th edition's starting hit points method and give low level characters encounter and daily powers.

Definitely use 4th edition's Fortitude, Reflex and Will Defenses but also use Pathfinder's Defense Saves for things such as ongoing damage, or for things where the character isn't attacked by someone.

Discard all the random and redundant power designing and narrow down Pathfinder's spell list and feat list removing the redundancy. Organize all the powers by what they do and how hard they are to learn compared to each other. For example, getting proficient with one weapon is easier than disarming a weapon. Casting a light spell for illumination should be easier than casting a fire ball. Removing poison should be easier than restoring an arm or raising the dead, etc..

Keep the range rules and burst rules similar for all powers. Keep the damage and level-up properties similar. It will make designing video games easier.

That all sounds terribly convoluted.

Perhaps D&DN should find NEW ways of doing things that are more streamlined and user-friendly.

Also, D&D should be designed to be the best roleplaying game possible, and not as the best potential videogame possible.

 

[Dausuul]

Some of you are just arguing just to argue. How about some suggestions of your own.

Open a thread anywhere in this forum and start reading.