Puzzles in 4th Edition

puzzles are great

IF they are done right.

MY players like them but as long as they are in theme.

For example, here's a puzzles I did that they liked:

They came across an old wizard laboratory. There was information in torn up notes that I gave them, that said this room had access to gates to other chambers in the complex. The only notes they found were piecemail diaries/logs of the lab peopleand wizards working here before. From descriptions, shorthand notes (the way many people write lab notes in a hurry) and images, they had to piece together how to get the contraptions working (or they could do pure trial an error of course but with possible risks).

It took some time but they got it all...what happened next, they wished they hadn't solved it :)

Now note, some people here may like this, some may hate it. THe thing was, it was in theme, since to them, they said after, they liked it cause (probably due to most of them being science/engineering majors), they can see lab people doing quick notes that are hard to decipher, with only stuff like chemical formula's being obvious. Diagrams being sketches, etc. SO for them, it made it seem like a real magical laboratory.

There was nothing stupid like a sudoku there...it was more at an attempt to make a 'logical' puzzle.

A sudoku for example, I would use in an area like a twisted lich who likes to torture his victoms by making them go thru rat mazes with traps and puzzles, with high price of failure.
Something like the Joker.

Another puzzle I did was a tower that was themed after "SAW". People from the party got randomly captured if the party didn't notice certain traps, etc...and were put into chambers. The most memorable was based on the Crucifix in Saw 3 (where the black medical student got all his bones snapped). A player, the cleric, was in a contraption similar. The 'key' to open the locks were a combination of sorts. Positions on a giant grid. each step caused rotation at specific joints, which after 5 rotations caused that joint/area to snap. both legs, both arms, and neck were viced in this way. They had to look over the entire trap board and figure out, base don the combinations, which possible ways to go there were. There were 2 ways across actually that resulted in no limb breakage. THey were doing fine, bu thten one player thought he figured out a part and took a differnt way. Turned out ok for a couple moves, but then SNAP. Cleric's left leg snapped at the knees... then the right arm and finally left arm.

(we use a very brutal critical hit system and locational damage/healing..so stuff liek this isnothing new).

Another trap in the same tower, that the players was a sound based trap. The clue was a voice that told them to listen, earlier in that area...i gotta find the riddle/clue. The concept was in the trap, they are both blindfolded, arms tied with giant hair ropes (very high DC to break) and they are tied together. THey hear noises and a grinder moves into the room to crush them. However, if they are quiet they will hear where the click comes from so they know which side the grinder was moving towards them from. As well, after each strike, there was a noise of air as if passing through an openig, which would guide them to how to get out.
The problem, to do this trap, whichever 2 get stuck, the other players get to watch (they have fun!!!) hehe. these 2 are put into 2 rooms and can only yell across the floor of our house at each other. THey didn't shut up..trying to figure what to do...so it was..painful to say the least.

Finally, my other favourite one from there was the disintegration maze. Each wall is invisible..they can thus see the exitto the chamber...however, ther are piles of dust everywhere and half 'eaten' sticks. Concept..if they use the sticks they find that the 'invisible' barriers disintegrate automatically upon touch..person or items.

They found out hard way when someone tried running through!!! they have to map out the place methodically. Then what happens, spheres of annihilation start moving through the areas, but they move based on positions again, so the coordinates they can find on a dead body within the maze, partial..and use that to figure out where togo next, etc.

this type of puzzle, they don't figure it out..oh well. the theme was a person mapping his way through and he made an error...

THey enjoyed these...

Sanjay
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Puzzles as encounters, like the idea of trap as encounter is a good design move. The "Speak Friend and Enter" type puzzle is just annoying.

Like just about everything else, it's all about the presentation.
 

I agree completely, also I think puzzles deserve their place in D&D simply because they are such a iconic part of fantasy. Hell, technically the way that Gandalf made sure the one-ring was the one-ring was through a VERY basic puzzle but still a puzzle none the less.
 

Umbran said:
Well, why does anyone like any particular aspect of D&D? Why do some folks like the battlemap/wargame elements of combat? Because they ahve a penchant for wargames. Some folks just like puzzles.



Rarely is a GM so good as to make every aspect of the game amazingly interesting for all players at the same time. The folks who are not combat-mavens are expected to deal with combat scenes anyway. The folks who don't like social/politics play are expected to live through it too.

Which is not to say that allowing your players eyes to glaze over is good. It just means that the DM has to arrange for there to be something else to do while the puzzles are being solved.
Having something extremely dangerous happen until the puzzle is solved sometimes helps. "Hey, can you hurry up with that thing? I think there's an infinite number of demons on the other side of this portal, and they're queued up to kill us."
 

Incenjucar said:
I've never had a logical scenario where a puzzle or a riddle would even make sense, much like the whole "dungeon with traps so deadly nobody can even use the place" thing.
The dangerous dungeon makes sense if it's a tomb. Nobody is ever supposed to enter, but there's treasure buried with the dead. How to keep out the living? Kill them with extreme prejudice. Puzzles basically never make sense though. Puzzles are usually some kind of key or password to get you through to the next area. But wouldn't it make sense to use a key or password that couldn't be guessed by a clever interloper? Sensible evil wizards don't encode the command word for the doomsday device as a rebus painted on a fresco overlooking the torture chamber.
 


Stalker0 said:
Reading the puzzle thread over in general got me thinking:

The classic problem with puzzles in dnd is that mental stats are far harder to roleplay correctly than physical ones. While we all can imagine how strong a hercules could be, its hard to imagine what a man with a 25 int (higher than any human who has ever lived) could accomplish.

When a dm provides his players a puzzle, he rightly wants them to take time and solve it. But the players have the valid point that if there character is far smarter than they are (and often times a super genius) then they should be able to solve the puzzle with ease.

I'm curious to know if 4e has any techniques or mechanics to try and bridge this gap.
I would also like to see a mechanics based helper, but not a solution by dice roll.

I have used various combinations of checks, hints, player knowledge, etc. I still don't have a perfect system even for myself. However I have found that some combination of a skill check for a hint or a partial solution coupled with player role play for the final or complete solution seems to bridge the gap between horrid waste of time and sheer delight.
 

Dr. Awkward said:
Having something extremely dangerous happen until the puzzle is solved sometimes helps. "Hey, can you hurry up with that thing? I think there's an infinite number of demons on the other side of this portal, and they're queued up to kill us."
"Yeah! An infinite XP machine!"
"Err, guys, I think I got it"
"Keep it for yourself until we are down to one Wand of Cure Light Wounds!"

---

I have a very ambivalent relationship to puzzles.
I hate them because many puzzles and riddles require to get into a very specific mindset to solve, and sometimes you just don't get there.

But they can also be interesting elements. There are places where riddles and puzzles make sense.
For example, during a Tournament the PCs want to win so they get the attention of an important local figure, they must also solve riddles. But solving the riddle is not the only way - they could also steal the answers from someone else, they just have to be careful about it. Or they could beat it out of the NPC that so far was always able to figure them out.

A puzzle that can be solved with experimentation (understanding how to operate a device) is also okay. But avoid the "infinite XP machines". THe urgency should probably come from an other source - the PCs have to leave the area soon to help someone else or stop the evil cutlists or whatever. Each failed attempt / time period might make the next task more difficult, until it becomes impossible...
 

I like puzzles and as a player and as a DM.

In the group in which I am a player, the DM is good with puzzles and the group likes them. We had a bunch in the last dugeon, and we all enjoy it.

The group I DM for does not particularly care for puzzles, so if I use them at all, I make sure they are only extras, and not "you need to figure this out to keep going." A puzzle might indicate some bonus hidden treasure or an easier way through (one path is guarded by a puzzle door, the other a monster. Take your pick which you'd handle.) or it might be a hint as to get through the door. The players would figure it out, but would be more prepared for what lies ahead if they can solve the puzzle.

I try to make sure that the puzzle is never required, only helpful in some way. It prevents them from being frustrating.
 

Oddly enough, I like puzzles and have zero problems with them as a player. As a DM, I never use them in the "you must press these buttons in the correct order" sense. Rather, they're usually logical set-ups where the players can figure out something very important about what's going on if they look at what they know logically.

That being said, I did like the previously posted idea of being at a ball and needing to figure out something from clues in the room while not attracting any attention from the other guests. I may actually use that one in the future.

As for the Saw tower? Yuck. Of course, I hated those movies too.
 

Remove ads

Top