Q: Summon Monster Spells

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Check the FAQ. Any parts of a summoned creature that are separated from it disappear when the creature does. So poison disappears and does not affect the target if the creature disappears first.

Apparently the Sage disagrees - he said this is possible (even though this goes against the Summoning description).

I've even seen an adventure where a demon summons a weaker demon for food. It would have starved to death over the 5000 years it was trapped if it couldn't do this.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The selections were just a SWAG by the designers. Add the fact that you can never summon anything outside of the MM, and the attraction of future monster releases is dimmed, at least for those who play more than they DM.

-Fletch!

Well, future monster releases are not meant for players, but solely for DM's. They're even advised not to hand the MM to players.

 

[Corinth]

Where do you get this odd notion?

 

[Staffan]

I've even seen an adventure where a demon summons a weaker demon for food. It would have starved to death over the 5000 years it was trapped if it couldn't do this.

Was it a 2e or 3e adventure? In 2e, demons summoning other demons worked a bit differently from the way it works in 3e.

BTW, at the MM2 chat with Jeff Grubb, Skip Williams and the other MM2 designers over at the WOTC site a few weeks ago they mentioned that there might be a web enhancement or something coming up with either expanded summoning tables or guidelines for what goes where.

Ah, after searching the WOTC site for a transcript I finally found this:

baloo says, "A lot of monsters have been released since the Summon Monster tables were put in the PHB. How about making revised Summon Monster tables available - perhaps as a web enhancement? Or even better, release solid guidelines as to what is appropriate for each level of Summon Monster, because there seems to be quite a lot of variance in the current tables. /ga"
baloo says, "Variance as in there's a lot of different HD and CRs at each level."
rich_redman says, "I think you'll see something like that, but you may have to be a bit patient (he says mysteriously...) /ga"

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Was it a 2e or 3e adventure? In 2e, demons summoning other demons worked a bit differently from the way it works in 3e.

It was a 3e adventure. I wouldn't use 2e in a 3e rules forum.

 

[Caliban]

Apparently the Sage disagrees - he said this is possible (even though this goes against the Summoning description).

I've even seen an adventure where a demon summons a weaker demon for food. It would have starved to death over the 5000 years it was trapped if it couldn't do this.

Where exactly does the Sage say this? It's not in the FAQ.

Unfortunately, summoning a creature to serve as food won't work. At the end of the spell's duration, the creature returns to where it came from, including any bits you might have chopped of or eaten.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

What if he gated it?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The demons were summoned. Maybe the adventure got it wrong.

I don't remember where the Sage said that, but I think it was in an email. Someone used a poisonous summoned creature to poison a wyvern, and after the summon ended, the wyvern died from the secondary Con damage. So they asked the Sage...

I wish I had his new email adress, so I could confirm this.

 

[green slime]

I recall a comment by the sage on this. Where I saw it I couldn't say...

And it does make sense that, as the poisonous creatures that are summoned have substantially lower CR.

On a side note:
Who says demons need to eat? I would have thought they were semi-eternal ceatures, and that a little suffering/starvation for 5000 years trapped in a box on the material plane would be regarded as a pleasurable existance for one; a priviledged status, nothing less. OF course it would STILL be VERY irritated, as demons tend to be...