Q: Templates, ECL, and HD

[Nastermil]

Thanks for the info on where to find the ECL for Shades. That will help.

As for the Drow/Tiefling, I don't have my FR book, having lent it to a friend, but I had thought that a Tiefling was a crossbreed of an outsider and a humanoid, and a drow is a humanoid, right? Or can tieflings only be half human? Regardless, the player came up with a very creative reason for why his character is the way he is, so I let it go. We are playing two games right now, one low level with characters taken from the PHB only, and a whacked-out crazy creature campaign with an ECL of 9-10. The crazy characters have kind of taken on an X-Men-like existance, where they hide out at a mansion, saving a world that hates and fears them from the forces of darkness. When they go into town, they have to take serious precautions. It didn't start out as an X-Men like campaign, but quickly went that way. And now, looking at the rules, races, etc., it would be so easy to make a D&D fantasy X-Men team with Prof X as a powerful psion, Nightcrawler as a Tiefling Shadowdancer, Wolverine as a dwarven barbarian with regeneration, fast healing, damage resistance, claws, and Adamantine laced bones, etc. That would be a pretty cool campaign. Sorry, is my geek showing?

 

[kreynolds]

How's that possible?

How is it not?

 

[Xarlen]

Tieflings are creatures with FIends in their *ancestory*.

Like, great great grandad was a Pit fiend..

Or, naturally, you could go like so: Fiend+ mortal= Half fiend. Half fiend+Mortal=Fiendish mortal. Fiendish mortal+Mortal=Tiefling.

This could be done with Drow, yes, but it's only been done with Humans (Ergo, you don't have Dwarven Genasi, etc etc).

Frankly, I think your Half Dragon/Drow is screwing herself. Not only will she be slayed in town (A dragon AND a drow? Double evil!) she has like, no class abilities.

And personally, I think the ECL of the SHade should depend on where you're adventuring. If you plan on going into the Underdark, where there's normally no light, you're going to be POWERFUL. If you're spending your time on the surface around lots of lights and daylight and stuff... Your powers go byebye.

And personally I've found that the Half-Dragon ECL is +3. I have a Half-dragon Rogue6/Sor1 and have had a Half dragon monk in the party (siblings) and both seemed about right for the level. ( I shudder to think about a 10th level rogue; the PC's skills are hideous as it is). Then again, the PC didn't twink her character out and use the +8 str to her advantage, so YMMV.

For that matter, I rate the Nat. Werewolf ECL +3 too; the party NPC is a tank, and she does all right for a 10th level equivilent character.

 

[Xarlen]

Sorry, is my geek showing?

You ask this on an internet message board about D&D?

I think your geek is just showing in a sea of showing geekiness.

 

[Pax]

Thanks for the info on where to find the ECL for Shades. That will help.

As for the Drow/Tiefling, I don't have my FR book, having lent it to a friend, but I had thought that a Tiefling was a crossbreed of an outsider and a humanoid, and a drow is a humanoid, right? Or can tieflings only be half human? Regardless, the player came up with a very creative reason for why his character is the way he is, so I let it go.

"Tiefling" is not a template. No moreso than "Human" is a template. If the by-the-book Tiefling in FRCS was indeed a template, then, a Tiefling-Human character would still gain +1 skill point per level, +1 bonus feat, and +4 skill points at 1st level.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

How is it not?

Not with the core rules, at least. Usually Tieflings are crossbreeds between human and fiend.

There are special Tieflings in the Realms, called Fey'ri, who are the offspring of gold elves that interbred with demons (mostly succubi I think) to strengthen their bloodline. Needless to say they were exiled by the People, but nowadays further descendants of the first half-fiend elves show up.

But in order to create a tiefling that's a drow with fiendish ancestry, you have to create a (more or less) entirely new race. And ECL +2 won't be enough with that I think (unless you strip that drow of most of its powers), since drow are ECL +2 in themselves and Fey'ri are +2, too. So a "Dark Fey'ri" (for want of a better title. Unseely Fey'ri?) would be +3 at least, probably even more.

 

[kreynolds]

Usually Tieflings are crossbreeds between human and fiend.

Very interesting. For some reason I was thinking "humanoid".

There are special Tieflings in the Realms, called Fey'ri, who are the offspring of gold elves that interbred with demons (mostly succubi I think) to strengthen their bloodline.

By the way, where the heck are the Fey'ri detailed? I just saw them in one of my books the other day, but now I can't remember where it was.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Monsters of Faerûn is what you seek. Though I think they will get a proper write-up as a PC race in Races of Faerûn.

 

[kreynolds]

Monsters of Faerûn is what you seek.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! (got a game coming up and I've been needing that info)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Lucky we are you haven't heard of "Tausend Dank"

I myself have two fey'ri characters in my game, or rather 1.03 or something, since the other player is almost never there. And both are sorcerers. Although I have limited what powers they get (instead of letting them choose out of that table, like in MoF. I wonder how they do them in Races of Faerûn).