Qhich does quantamn physics better?

[Brad Hindman]

Quantum physics mostly a theory about the weird things that can happen on small scales. And that's cool. But D&D magic and psi only operate on the macro-scale. And that's not quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is all about the strange, unpredictable, unintuitive, and subltle. D&D magics of all stripes are about producing blatant, striaghtforward effects.

The analogy between spell slots and the electron states of an atom has more do do with general wave resonance than it does with quantum mechanics. But, I agree with you. A quantum mechanical (or wave resonance) explanation of magic isn't my cup of tea. I prefer my magic to be ... well, "magical".

 

[Psion]

Quantum physics mostly a theory about the weird things that can happen on small scales. And that's cool. But D&D magic and psi only operate on the macro-scale. And that's not quantum mechanics.

That's not quantum mechanics in the real world. But the term quantum mechanics is names specifically for quantization, which is arguably exactly waht is going on with spell levels if you look at it as anything other than a gaming abstraction.

 

[physicscarp]

Fluff or Crunch?

Are you interested in incorporating QM fulff or crunch?

Quantum mechanical fluff is the material you read about in books like The Tao of Physics or Physics of the Soul . Typically, books such as these will take the scientifcally confirmed ideas of quantum mechanics and attempt to apply it to a macroscopic, and often very human, scale. It sometimes makes for interesting reading, but more often than not it's no more applicable than applying D&D alignments to real people.

IMHO, quantum mechanical crunch is far more interesting, as it describes measurable, detectable results. I used Liboff's Introductory Quantum Mechanics as an undergraduate, but I also prefer Eisberg and Resnikc's QM book . Make no mistake about it, QM crunch leads to some counterintuitive and down right strange ideas, but these things describe electrons and protons, and at most atoms or molecules. Once you start, saying, "Well if we treat each spell level as a particular magic "shell" surrounding the wizard, then only so many "spells" can fit inside each shell." you're heading back into the fluff region, as wizards are not atoms, and spells are not electrons.

Oh, and beware having someone at the table that understands QM, as it may just backfire on you. It's why I never play superheroes with gravity or electromagnetic powers.

 

[physicscarp]

Wow, my first double post. I feel dirty.

 

[physicscarp]

Case in point: if you wave your arms correctly and speak the proper mumbo-jumbo, a fireball will appear, regardless of who is watching. Only the damage the fireball causes will vary from experiment to experiment. Recent theoretical research calls for the existance of so called hidden "d6" variables, which determine the outcome of the experiment.

This is fun

Very nice.

But didn't the Aspect experiment prove that there are no hidden variables in QM?

However, now you have me thinking. Using the uncertainty principle as a guide, a wizard cannot know both the damage and the effect (victim saves or doesn't, another hidden variable) to a high degree of percision, so the two must be complementary variables. Could he therefore sacrifice damage ability to increase the difficulty of the save? Or vice versa?

 

[Bastoche]

As a Ph.D. student in physics (superconductivity and magnetism) I do not want to see your system. I think it does not fit with psion nor arcane magic and even less divine. It's science, it's not magic!

Now that I "know better" about these things, I can't stand sci-fi anymore. Too lousy. Except star wars, thanks to the (magic) force!

 

[Psion]

As a Ph.D. student in physics (superconductivity and magnetism) I do not want to see your system. I think it does not fit with psion nor arcane magic and even less divine. It's science, it's not magic!

But what is magic? Magic is nothing but the means to cause physical effects in an alternate universe.

Within the perspective of that universe, the study of physical properties -- to include magic is -- wait for it -- science.

 

[OurManMute]

But didn't the Aspect experiment prove that there are no hidden variables in QM?

Er, yes. But I make it a practice not to let mere facts prevent me from making a joke.

Now I'm thinking, though... Monks would probably do quantum qith path integrals (the whole "it's the journey that matters, not the destination" thing), but what about divine spelcasters?

Using the uncertainty principle as a guide, a wizard cannot know both the damage and the effect (victim saves or doesn't, another hidden variable) to a high degree of percision, so the two must be complementary variables. Could he therefore sacrifice damage ability to increase the difficulty of the save? Or vice versa?

I think you have to be careful here: actually casting a spell on a target causes inteference between the spell and the target, with possible entanglement as a result. In my example with the fireball the interference would mean that both the amount of damage of the fireball and the saving probability of the target are messed up, and it's anyone's guess what will happen. In some cases the subsequent entanglement will make quantum teleportation possible, albeit for a very short period of time; in such a case the target is winked away to a far off location, and reappears a fraction of a second later. On such an occurrance he evades most of the spell's effect (theorists speak of something called a "natural 20").

[/bs]

 

[LostSoul]

Within the perspective of that universe, the study of physical properties -- to include magic is -- wait for it -- science.

Which is a problem that I have with D&D magic. I would like to see it treated less like science and more like a mystical process. I don't know how to get there using rules that I can play with, and have fun playing with, however.

 

[RangerWickett]

Guys, magic taps a power that exists in the 5th through 7th dimension, and normal people simply cannot access it. Mages learn through the most intricate and bizarre movements of their hands, to pry open paths to these dimensions, drawing the power from this near-virtual aether, then channeling it with their will.

Normal people cannot access this power, the same way that a normal person cannot punch through a cement block. Even if you see someone do it, if you haven't trained your body to perform just the right motions, you end up hurting yourself. There are layers of complexity in the somatic components of spells that are too subtle to comprehend consciously.