Qualifying for feats...

[DanMcS]

You can get a 30 without items, assuming, of course, you can get ahold of five wishes somehow without an item. Otherwise you're back to 25. And there are definitely feats that require higher than a 25. I couldn't name them, but I remember seeing prereqs of Dex 29 and Con 29 in some places.

A while back, maybe in Sage Advice in Dragon, someone asked if stat-enhancing items could be used to qualify for feats, and the sage said yes, with the same "lose the item" caveat. He also said that feats in the ELH were designed with that in mind, and if you're playing without many stat-boosting items, you should probably drop some of the prereqs for feats.

 

[melkoriii]

You can use items to qaulify for feats.

You just lose access to the feat if you lose the item.

Its like if you get ability drain, you lose access to feats based on taht ability.

 

[Vexed]

You can get a 30 without items, assuming, of course, you can get ahold of five wishes somehow without an item. Otherwise you're back to 25. And there are definitely feats that require higher than a 25. I couldn't name them, but I remember seeing prereqs of Dex 29 and Con 29 in some places.

A while back, maybe in Sage Advice in Dragon, someone asked if stat-enhancing items could be used to qualify for feats, and the sage said yes, with the same "lose the item" caveat. He also said that feats in the ELH were designed with that in mind, and if you're playing without many stat-boosting items, you should probably drop some of the prereqs for feats.

I agree that you can take a feat as long as you have the req. Exactly how you attained it is irrelevant. (I have 18str, i put on +2 str ogre gauntlet. You need str 20 for this feat. What is my str? My str is a 20. I can take the feat).

The epic books talked about "virtual feats" and losing a feat if you no longer meet the pre req. I saw no ability score requirement of 30 or more (just skill ranks). So I feel as long as you have the prereq met then you can use the feat, and lose the use of the feat if you lost the pre req requirement.

 

[MerakSpielman]

It would be nice if this was spelled out clearly in the rules, one way or the other. The way everybody says they've been doing it (even the Sage) is probably the most sensible, but it really should have been in the Feats section in the PHB as a basic fact of life. Just the fact that I've seen this question so many times attests to the need of a single sentence added to that effect.

 

[melkoriii]

It would be nice if this was spelled out clearly in the rules, one way or the other. The way everybody says they've been doing it (even the Sage) is probably the most sensible, but it really should have been in the Feats section in the PHB as a basic fact of life. Just the fact that I've seen this question so many times attests to the need of a single sentence added to that effect.

Why?


Like Vexed said. Feat says you need a Str 30. If character Str is 30 (be it by Item or normal) its still 30, you can take the feat.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Because it can be (and has been) argued (but not by me, so don't tear into me too deeply here) that the character does not in fact have a str of 30. He has a Str of 18, and a collection of items that provide different bonuses to said Str. The actual, physical capacity of the character is 18 str. The bonuses provided by the items are not "real" str. Perhaps the character does not even feel or look stronger. He hasn't gone through incredible lengrhs to exercise and gain experience in how muscles slowly develop and work. In effect, the str is there, but not the experience of slowly gaining and learning how to use it. What if the feat "Super Cleave" requires 30 Str, and you get it based on an item. Then you lose the item. The feat "Super Duper Cleave" requires only "Super Cleave" as a prerequisite. Can you take "Super Duper Cleave" even though you no longer meet the requirements for one of its prerequisites?

Frankly, I have trouble agreeing with that arguement, but some people will stick with it to the bitter end.

The arguement I like better is for int and skill points. If you have a headband of intellect, and you gain a level, do you gain additional skill points from the headband? Do you lose these skill points if you take it off? Do you regain them when you put it back on? What if you get a headband, level up and spend the skill points, lose the headband and lose the skill points, then find a different int-increasing item that's only half as good as the headband? Which skill points do you get back?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I personally disagree with treating inherent bonuses differently to any other sort of bonus.

An inherent bonus is a bonus - it's not a change to the base score, such as the change from advancing a creature to a new size category, the aging modifiers, or the level-based ability increases.

If you define an ability as base score plus bonuses... then inherent bonuses fall in the "bonuses" part of the equation.

This is primarily relevant when Polymorphing. If your Strength is 10, with a +4 Enhancement bonus from Bull's Strength (14 total), and you Polymorph into an orc, your Strength is now 15 (average for an orc), with a +4 Enhancement bonus from Bull's Strength (19 total).

If your Strength is 12 (10 plus two level-based increases), with a +4 Enhancement bonus from Bull's Strength and a +3 Inherent bonus (19 total) and you Polymorph into an orc, your Strength is now 15 (average for an orc), with a +4 Enhancement bonus from Bull's Strength and a +3 Inherent bonus (22 total).

Inherent bonuses are named bonuses. They don't stack with other inherent bonuses. Why should they be treated differently to any other sort of named bonus?

-Hyp.

 

[melkoriii]

Because it can be (and has been) argued (but not by me, so don't tear into me too deeply here) that the character does not in fact have a str of 30. He has a Str of 18, and a collection of items that provide different bonuses to said Str. The actual, physical capacity of the character is 18 str. The bonuses provided by the items are not "real" str. Perhaps the character does not even feel or look stronger.

So no PC can carry more than 300 lbs.

Carrying Capacity is scailed based on you Str score.

If a PC with Str base 18 and has items and other things to up his Str he can still only carry 300 lbs as that is the max a Str 18 PC can carry.



No sorry.

Str is Str is Str. It does not matter how you get it.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If one were to seriously believe that bonuses to Str are not presumed to be actual Str points, I can only wonder what one should do when interpreting Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells on page 8 of the PHB.

How do you calculate the appropriate bonus to hit and for damage? Do we have bonuses to hit, enhancement bonuses to hit, AND inherent bonuses to hit? Hey! We can even have enhancement hit points and enhancement hit point damage which are just like normal hit point and damage except...they are different.