Qualities of a Hero

Bront · May 31, 2005

Can we get a Mod to move this to the RPG section instead of the Rules section? I think we'd get more responses (and it's been interesting to see people's views on this.)

Dracomeander · May 31, 2005

Testament said:
I read this, laughed and said to myself "And that's why heroes all end up in the same place. DEAD!"

Maybe I'm just jaded. Or maybe its just that someone who has all those qualities simply isn't believeable.

Or is that a chicken/egg paradox in my last statement?

That is a sad commentary on the state of society today.

Those are not the qualities of a hero but the qualities of the common man and deserve not admiration upon a pedestal but respect. Those are the qualities that we should strive to show to each other for they are the qualities that allow a society to work in a sane manner.

The problem is nobody bothers to teach their children these qualities anymore. It is a symptom of the pace of our lives now. The media is so inundated with examples of the negative aspects of human behavoir that people have forgotten how to respect the positive. Or if people haven't forgotten, they just don't have the time to point to the positive and explain this is how we should act.

Al · May 31, 2005

Dracomeander said:
That is a sad commentary on the state of society today.

Those are not the qualities of a hero but the qualities of the common man and deserve not admiration upon a pedestal but respect. Those are the qualities that we should strive to show to each other for they are the qualities that allow a society to work in a sane manner.

The problem is nobody bothers to teach their children these qualities anymore. It is a symptom of the pace of our lives now. The media is so inundated with examples of the negative aspects of human behavoir that people have forgotten how to respect the positive. Or if people haven't forgotten, they just don't have the time to point to the positive and explain this is how we should act.

Whilst these are certainly held up as ideals, it is far from the case that these were ever actually exercised in practice consistently. No realistic "hero" would ever encompass all of these qualities . This is the fundamental problem which many critics of the traditional "hero" archetype identify, without even getting into complicated argument such as that the qualities that society espouses for heroes being conditional upon its broader historial and social context.

If no historical "hero" embodies these principles, it behooves many role-players to expect to persevere - and win - when truly great figures have not. The problem with the legendary hero archetype is that against that yardstick all but fictional characters are found lacking, and even many fictional heroes cannot hope to match these conditions.

The hero archetype is unattainable, so many people opt for a secondary, still good, variant which is more satisfying and more realistic.

Testament · May 31, 2005

Am I the only one who finds compassion and wisdom to be contradictory? There's nothing wise about compassionately leaving your enemy alive!

Aust Diamondew · May 31, 2005

Even the ancient heroes in Greek Myth didn't embody all of these qualities, I think it's silly to think that any individual could. But that doesn't mean a hero can't try to be all of these things.

John Q. Mayhem · May 31, 2005

Testament said:
Am I the only one who finds compassion and wisdom to be contradictory? There's nothing wise about compassionately leaving your enemy alive!

While in that specific example, compassion leaves the enemy alive, that is a very extreme case. Compassion doesn't always mean showing mercy to those who don't deserve it, and indeed pose a danger to you. There's nothing contradictory between wisdom and compassion; while occasionally compassion may move you to a dangerous course, who's to say that taking that course isn't the right thing to do?

Darkness · May 31, 2005

Not a Rules topic, so I'll move this to GD.

Wombat · May 31, 2005

I think there is a difference between ideals and reality. Few actual, physical individuals uphold all the ideals of any given culture; heroes, be they in stories, movies, or song, create an image of the values held. Superman doesn't exist, King Arthur didn't exist (at least not in an identifiable form), yet they serve as symbols of what others wish to emulate.

Of course the devil is in the details.

What one person thinks of as "Wisdom", someone else might see as "Stupidity" or "Naivete".

In any case, we are dealing with characters in a game; such characters can be heroes! Since we are dealing with characters in a game, the characters can be Over And Above and can be Truly Heroic.

Of course not every game is based on heroic ideals; not every game has to be. So whether these Heroic Ideals are held up as a Major Goal or a Good Way To Get Yourself Killed is what separates one gaming style from another.

Henry · May 31, 2005

People have been cheering for the Anti-hero and the Underdog for a long time; heck, the American Revolutionary War could be considered a tale of "Anti-heroes" from one perspective - a bunch of smugglers, rebels against proper authority, and cutthroats banding together to oust an empire stronger than they?

However, there is still a place for the iconic hero, which is what the above describes. These ideals should exist as a goal, rather than a mark to be hit regularly. Being a hero is a journey, not a state of being or a destination, and while you may approach it, very few to none can realistically hit the mark all the time. Heck, Frodo really doesn't, it's dumb luck or divine providence that really saves Middle Earth in the end. But he had a lot of these qualities.