Queen of Chaos--get off yer duff!

[James Jacobs]

Part of the reason I've not talked much about the Queen of Chaos, frankly, is that I'm not particularly keen on the mythos for her and Miska from the Rod of Seven Parts adventure, nor am I that keen on her resemblance to Whats-Her-Name from "The Little Mermaid," nor am I too keen on the fact that her name is the "Queen of Chaos." And I don't really like the spyder demons much either, especially how you can't really just update one, you have to update all seven or however many there are. All of these things can certainly be addressed in a ret-con type article, but I'm also aware/suspect that a lot of people out there really like her as she is, so I'm hesitant to dive in there and do a lot of changing just to satisfy my own hangups about her.

That said, she gets a little bit more attention at the start of the "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Demogorgon" artilce; not much, and nothing really new, but still.

There's plenty more demon lords that I'd love to write about before we get to the Queen and Miska, though—Pale Night, Graz'zt, Obox-ob, Juiblex, and Yeenoghu being the obvious ones since they were in FC1, but there's more beyond them that haven't had much ever about them written...

ANYway. I'd love to keep writing Demonomicon articles. I haven't heard from WotC any of their plans for the series once things switch over to the online version, though, so for now, once the last one hits in Dragon #359, the whole thing gets to wait in limbo. The state, not the plane.

I'm certainly happy to keep chatting about demons here on ENworld though, no matter WHAT happens to Iggwilv's stuff.

 

[Atavar]

Hey, here's another quick question. At what point do the Wind Dukes and the Vaati get combined? Aren't the Vaati a completely different race from the original Oriental Adventures who just happen to have a place called Aqaa in their stable? Are they really the same thing, or is that kinda a false correllation? Where is it stated categorically that they are the same?

I presume Ro7P is a 2e mega-adventure?

The first I heard of the Vaati and the Wind Dukes was in the Ro7P maxed set, and if I recall correctly they are the same thing in that adventure.

Unless I am mistaken, Rod of Seven Parts was originally a novel that was turned into a mega-adventure boxed set for 2nd edition.

Later,

Atavar

 

[Shemeska]

Bah. Humbug. I don't buy into that yugoloth propoganda. I kinda like how there's this one passage in FC1 that addresses the whole fiendish creation story with a common origin by the baernoloths and dismisses it out of hand in the same breath.

I wouldn't say the book dismisses it, they just say it's only promoted as truth by the 'loths. Of course later on in the book, the obyrith Bechard openly admits to some variation of that legend being fact (but I'll admit that the whole issue of the baerns' role in the creation of the fiends beyond the 'loths is one that should probably remain murky and twisted, with multiple truths depending on who is asked. It might have been an experiment, it might have been an accident, it might have been something that they no longer have control over but which they still delude their favored children into believing that they do, they might have only created the initial ones with all subsequent generations forming from the planes they colonized, etc. Best to leave it myth, especially given the time point it in prehistory it would have happened at.).

Part of the reason I've not talked much about the Queen of Chaos, frankly, is that I'm not particularly keen on the mythos for her and Miska from the Rod of Seven Parts adventure, nor am I that keen on her resemblance to Whats-Her-Name from "The Little Mermaid," nor am I too keen on the fact that her name is the "Queen of Chaos."

Remind me to buy you a drink at GenCon this year.

Back before you guys wrote FC:I, I loathed the very concept of her: goofy name, looked like ursula from little mermaid, didn't easily mesh with planar history from other timelines of the lower planes, etc. Like her or not, you did a good job of making me not despise her quite nearly as much because of your solution to the matter with her history you elaborated upon and the way you handled the timeline. She's far from my favorite still, and her original origins in Ro7P rub me awkwardly, but you salvaged her to the point where I'd use her or Miska in a campaign or story.

 

[Desdichado]

I wouldn't say the book dismisses it, they just say it's only promoted as truth by the 'loths. Of course later on in the book, the obyrith Bechard openly admits to some variation of that legend being fact (but I'll admit that the whole issue of the baerns' role in the creation of the fiends beyond the 'loths is one that should probably remain murky and twisted, with multiple truths depending on who is asked. It might have been an experiment, it might have been an accident, it might have been something that they no longer have control over but which they still delude their favored children into believing that they do, they might have only created the initial ones with all subsequent generations forming from the planes they colonized, etc. Best to leave it myth, especially given the time point it in prehistory it would have happened at.)

Well, of course you wouldn't say that.

One of the things I really liked about FC1 though was the fact that few things were presented as fact. The Black Scrolls would say one thing, the Demonomicon would have something contradictory and some third source would say yet again something else.

Really helps build up that cool mythological feel.

 

[Desdichado]

Part of the reason I've not talked much about the Queen of Chaos, frankly, is that I'm not particularly keen on the mythos for her and Miska from the Rod of Seven Parts adventure, nor am I that keen on her resemblance to Whats-Her-Name from "The Little Mermaid," nor am I too keen on the fact that her name is the "Queen of Chaos." And I don't really like the spyder demons much either, especially how you can't really just update one, you have to update all seven or however many there are. All of these things can certainly be addressed in a ret-con type article, but I'm also aware/suspect that a lot of people out there really like her as she is, so I'm hesitant to dive in there and do a lot of changing just to satisfy my own hangups about her.

Well, the physical appearance seems to be the easiest thing to change. I mean, if Orcus can get all lean and mean and Demogorgon can flirt with having green hyena heads instead of mandrill ones, then it should be a heckuva lot easier to update the Queen of Chaos's image. Maybe give her an actual name while you're at it.

That said, she gets a little bit more attention at the start of the "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Demogorgon" artilce; not much, and nothing really new, but still.

Which issue will that one be in?

There's plenty more demon lords that I'd love to write about before we get to the Queen and Miska, though—Pale Night, Graz'zt, Obox-ob, Juiblex, and Yeenoghu being the obvious ones since they were in FC1, but there's more beyond them that haven't had much ever about them written...

ANYway. I'd love to keep writing Demonomicon articles. I haven't heard from WotC any of their plans for the series once things switch over to the online version, though, so for now, once the last one hits in Dragon #359, the whole thing gets to wait in limbo. The state, not the plane.

I'm certainly happy to keep chatting about demons here on ENworld though, no matter WHAT happens to Iggwilv's stuff.

Well, if Wotc happen to be scouring the board for ideas on what we want, there's certainly my vote right there. For my money, the Demonomicon articles have been the most interesting thing in Dragon lately.

But I'm a bit of a demon fanboy, so maybe I'm overstating their value to the populace at large. Who knows.

 

[Ry]

pale night

I was going to shout it, but it's safer to whisper.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

What in the world is she doing? Pining for the Wolf-spider?

Get off yer duff and start threatening the multiverse again!

She's been too busy trying to get the Rod of Seven Parts back.

 

[Desdichado]

So, not having ever seen this Rod of Seven Parts adventure (or most 2e products, for that matter--I left D&D in 1e and didn't come back until 3e came out) does anyone have a scan of what she supposedly looked like? I have to admit; seeing the D&D version of Ursula--while not something I'd condone--does have me somewhat intrigued.

I tried to GIS it, but came up blank. Got a bunch of pictures of weird looking Goth chicks, though.

 

[Psion]

Well, the physical appearance seems to be the easiest thing to change. I mean, if Orcus can get all lean and mean and Demogorgon can flirt with having green hyena heads instead of mandrill ones, then it should be a heckuva lot easier to update the Queen of Chaos's image. Maybe give her an actual name while you're at it.

Queen of Chaos sounds like an honorific that you see mentioned in reference to a REAL demonic name. Perhaps you could just plop in the names of one of the known demon lords in FCI or the 1e MMII.

 

[Shemeska]

One of the things I really liked about FC1 though was the fact that few things were presented as fact. The Black Scrolls would say one thing, the Demonomicon would have something contradictory and some third source would say yet again something else.

Really helps build up that cool mythological feel.

Absolutely. Having sources of questionable integrity, potential source bias, and openly conflicting versions of stories really allows for some depth to be built up in the material. Planescape had a lot of that, and FC:I did the same beautifully. So long as some of those differing theories contain some common ground, some core elements that might be interpreted differently, but be present nonetheless, that style works wonders.