Question about amount of time for crafting and handle animals

[huginn12]

Hello
I recently joined a 3.5 dnd group and created a ranger have have some qwuestions about handle animal and crafting weapons

For handle animal it say how many weeks to train an animal to guard or hunt but is that 8 hours a day 7 days a week to train the animal?

For crafting weapons if it takes more then a week is it 7 8 hours a day seven days a week and if an item takes says half a week then it 3.5 days?

I was looking at how long it take me to make stuff with 1 rank using masterwork tools and having a plus 2 from int stat
to make a long bow taking 10 it be (15*12/750) which gives .24. So after 4 weeks I be 96% done so on the 5th week do I use the daily check to see how many days?

I looked at the check daily progress option now for a long bow it be (15*12/7500) which gives a daily progress of 2.4% and after a week i be 16.8% done. Shouldn't progress be the same are they using ten day weeks?

Right now I just want to be able to make arrows,bolts and other simple stuff or repair weapons So i want to make sure i am doing it right and i want to know how many I can make per hour. later on I try masterwork weapons or a bow that lets me use my strength bonus

I am curious as to why market price is factor in seeing how long it takes to make a weapon should weight be more important

 

[Greenfield]

Crafting rules vary from edition to edition, so without that detail it's hard to answer.

In 3.* Crafting of items, whether you're talking about making mundane or magical, says it presumes a full day's work (8 hours).

Using the Craft skill doesn't usually tell you to spend X days or N weeks, or half a week. It's based on a skill check and the DC for the item being crafted.

First you roll the dice and add your skill and any modifiers. If you don't make the target DC for the item, you make no progress, and if you fail by more than 5 points you ruin your raw materials and have to start over.

If you succeed on the check then multiply the result by the target DC. The result is the amount of progress you've made, in copper pieces of value for a day, or in silver pieces if the roll is for a week. You can voluntarily raise the DC of the project, thus making faster progress, if you're confident in the character's skill.

The project is finished when the total progress meets or exceeds the market value of the item. (Not the cost of the materials or the fractional resale value).

For crafting magic items, you have to start with a masterworked item. If you don't have one then it needs to be made, using the crafting rules mentioned above. Then the crafter spends full days, at 1000 gp of progress per day, until the market price is reached. They need daily access to the spells involved, and those spells are considered expended, complete with material cost and any Exp needed for the spell.

 

[huginn12]

Crafting rules vary from edition to edition, so without that detail it's hard to answer.

In 3.* Crafting of items, whether you're talking about making mundane or magical, says it presumes a full day's work (8 hours).

Using the Craft skill doesn't usually tell you to spend X days or N weeks, or half a week. It's based on a skill check and the DC for the item being crafted.

First you roll the dice and add your skill and any modifiers. If you don't make the target DC for the item, you make no progress, and if you fail by more than 5 points you ruin your raw materials and have to start over.

If you succeed on the check then multiply the result by the target DC. The result is the amount of progress you've made, in copper pieces of value for a day, or in silver pieces if the roll is for a week. You can voluntarily raise the DC of the project, thus making faster progress, if you're confident in the character's skill.

The project is finished when the total progress meets or exceeds the market value of the item. (Not the cost of the materials or the fractional resale value).

For crafting magic items, you have to start with a masterworked item. If you don't have one then it needs to be made, using the crafting rules mentioned above. Then the crafter spends full days, at 1000 gp of progress per day, until the market price is reached. They need daily access to the spells involved, and those spells are considered expended, complete with material cost and any Exp needed for the spell.

I did say it was 3.5. I understand the part if I make the check then multiply the result by the DC and divide by the price in either silver or copper pieces. I known people said you can take 10 to avoid any chance of failure. Using take 10 couldnt it be determined just exactly how many weeks, days and hours it would take to make the item. Using my example in my first post I make make 24% progress per week and after the 4th week I will be 96% done so in the 5th week I be done after 1.5 to 2 days correct? The part i was wondering about on the very last day just how many hours is it going to take

I know the player's handbook says if my result if 2 or 3 times greater then the price then i finished in 1/2 or 1/3 the time but I didn't see anything about do they consider one week to be 5 working days or 7 days. The only book i read was the players handbook so i don't know if another book goes into greater detail and years ago I played forgotten realms when it first came out which if memory serves me had 10 day weeks so is this math based on 10 day weeks

 

[N'raac]

Taking 10 means you rolled a 10 on your check - apply that to determine progress made.

 

[Greenfield]

Sorry about missing the version.

You may not be able to take 10 on a craft roll.

Skill checks can still succeed on a natural 1, by the book, so it's possible to have a crafting skill high enough that you can't fail. If you can fail by 5 or more than you can't take 10. There's an actual risk involved if you fail.

The situation you describe is actually a gray area in the rules. You get a bonus for working a full week: Progress is in coppers per day, or silvers per week. Counted as days, seven days work is 70% of what a week's progress would be.

If the week was only five days you'd be getting a 100% markup on the effort, as opposed to counting it as days. so don't be greedy, call a work week a full seven days.

And since the crafting rules define a day's work as a full day, round your days up.

Also be aware that, if you want master worked items there's a completely separate roll, after the basic crafting roll. The DC is a minimum of 20, and may be higher. This one doesn't count towards progress, it's simply a quality check to make sure you're doing it right.

 

[N'raac]

From the Wiki SRD:

Taking 10

When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

Taking 20

When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.

Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

The fact you can fall out of a tree with a bad enough Climb check does not prevent Taking 10 if you are not threatened or distracted. Craft is no different. A typical Craftsman likely always Takes 10, voluntarily increasing the DC to speed the process if he's good enough to still succeed on a Take 10.

The Take 20 looks like a change to me - I recall the exact rule Greenfield cites applying to Take 20 (only if there is no possible penalty for failure). I've typically interpreted "I Take 20" as "I keep trying until I succeed or clearly realize I can't do it". This saves extended periods of "roll, fail try again". If there is a failure consequence, I'm inclined to start rolling and see what comes up first. Three rolls in it succeeds? He's not going to keep trying. 3 rolls in a trap goes off? He may not make a fourth attempt (even if he is capable of doing so).

As to Masterwork:

Creating Masterwork Items

You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.

You do still have to make enough DC 20 checks to cover the time for a Masterwork weapon or armor's cost.

I'm not aware of any definitive rule for working with unusual materials, an area which could stand a look and a house rule if you expect to Craft a lot in the game.

 

[Greenfield]

Good catch on Take 10. I was conflating the Take 10 and Take 20 rules. My bad.

In any case, the other part of his question was about time, and how to gauge half a week's progress. By the book, you don't: You do weeks work until another week would overshoot, then do days of labor to finish. So X weeks plus five days. It you want to get technical.

 

[N'raac]

There is a progress by day rule, which uses your roll in CP. I prefer to just allow daily use, and you get 1/7 of the progress you would have made (Pathfinder uses "divide by days in the week"). Maybe that should be 1/5 if we assume people have 2 of 7 days' rest. Both have the "fraction of a week" rule for rolls that double, triple, etc. the remaining time required.

Take 10 seems to attract a lot of debate, including conflating the two - you're far from alone. Most of the (in game) time, we're either distracted by something, or we have unlimited time, so these details don't come up. I find very few characters use Craft.

 

[howandwhy99]

Remember to change your thread tag to 3.5 if you're only asking about that ruleset. Makes things easier when scanning this forum. Thanks
!