Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
CCamfield said:
The duration of Mage Armor at caster level 1.
-Hyp.
Question about fighter/magic-using builds
- Thread starter CCamfield
- Start date
The duration of Mage Armor at caster level 1.
-Hyp.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Start with fighter. That nets you an extra six hit points, lets you use your first level feats for stuff with BAB +1 prereq, and doesn't cost you any skill points.
20% spell failure is a pain but you can deal with it at low levels. And there is no spell failure for spells without somatic components--True Strike, Light, Feather Fall, Blindness/Deafness, etc.
The comment about wearing armor for one hour a day is a reference to Mage Armor which would only be active for one hour each day.
At low levels, sword and board is a reasonable proposition for the fighter/wizard. You've only got a few spells so odds are you'll only cast one or two per combat. What you do is you carry your weapon and an empty hand at the beginning. Then, after you cast your spell, you ready your shield as you move into position. That way, you don't incur any extra spell failure when casting, and probably don't have a difficulty with not having a free hand to cast a spell. And you get the extra AC of the shield when you want it. And when you don't... you can just use your weapon in two hands.
For your feat and spell choices, Enlarge Person is a very good buff--especially if you use a reach weapon and doubly so if you use Improved Trip (Enlarge improves your trip check by 5 points-- 4 for size and 1 for strength). Don't forget about Ray of Enfeeblement either. That can really knock a foe's strength down so that you're on a more even playing field and puts your foes at an even further disadvantage on the trip check.
This is what I would consider:
Ftr 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes (wield a guisarme)
Ftr 1/Wiz 1: Transmuter is a pretty good specialty but divination (only one banned school) and necromancy (extra Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blindness, Ray of Exhaustion, Enervation, etc).
Ftr 1/Wiz 2: Power Attack
Ftr 1/Wiz 3: Now you've got a number of nifty choices:
Mirror Image-good defense for a couple rounds
Blindness/Deafness--no spell failure offense
Flaming Sphere--something to do with that move action while you're in melee; this effectively gives you two attacks per round: the sphere and your weapon
Alter Self--Get natural armor as a troglodyte
Glitterdust--blind your enemies and beat the tar out of them (also a good substitute for see invisibility in a pinch)
False Life--somewhat makes up for your d4 hit points
Ftr 1/Wiz 4
Ftr 1/Wiz 5: Arcane Strike and a metamagic or item creation feat. If you are willing to suck up the level hit, still spell lets you wear fullplate and cast spells without failure (or a free hand). Extend Spell can come in handy if you're left with an open slot in the evening and nothing to do with it (other than an extended Mage Armor--wohoo, no spell failure anymore--or an extended False Life, etc). Craft Wondrous Item will also be very useful. You can make headbands of intellect, pearls of power, belts of giant strength, gloves of dexterity, boots of speed--all sorts of things to make you effective.
Spells:
Blink-denies foes their dex bonus (good when combined with Expert Tactician (Song and Silence--gives you an extra melee attack against anyone denied their dex bonus)), gives you +2 to hit, gives your foes a 50% miss chance against you, you take half damage from area effect spells, AND you can walk through walls (for a small risk of taking minor damage).
Heroism-Almost makes up for those points of BAB you sacrificed to become a wizard.
Greater Magic Weapon--better when you hit 8th level in 3.5 but still handy and has a long duration.
Ray of Exhaustion--fatigue your foes with no save and a chance of exhausting them. Would be really nice if you went the spring attack route.
Displacement--no spell failure and a 50% miss chance. All around good spell.
Haste--IMO, overrated for fighter/wizards. It's a buff for your party more than it is for you. It's best use is letting you craft boots of speed (which are a free action to activate--any bonusses that don't cost you actions are good).
Ftr 1/Wiz 6
Ftr 1/Wiz 6/Eldritch Knight 1: You get a bonus feat here and have a lot of options with it. Expert Tactican works very well in combination with Blink and should be a priority if you have access to Song and Silence. Quicken Spell will be useful in a couple levels and you have a chance to take it now. Weapon focus will help make up for the BAB you lost. Dodge will start you on the spring attack route (you'll finish a bit late at clvl 12 though). Blindfight never hurt anyone. Close Quarters Fighting is quite a nice feat if you have access to Complete Warrior. Spell focus would be useful if you use a lot of spells in the same school but IMO Spell Penetration--or, even better, Practiced Spellcaster (if you have access to Complete Divine).
Ftr 1/Wiz 6/Eldritch Knight 2 At this point you get your first 4th level spells (and Scorcing Ray becomes useful for the first time, and you get your iterative attack. All told, it's a very good level). You get another feat so continue down whatever train you were working on or pick up Quicken Spell in preparation for gaining 5th level spells or get Expert Tactician.
Good spells:
Stoneskin: Nice but expensive--and more useful on the fighter/barbarian who loses half his hit points every combat than on you (who have a lot of defensive abilities).
Greater Invisibility--triggers expert tactician just like Blink. Makes you hard to see and hit. And, if you're using a reach weapon, opponents can't see you to know what area you threaten and avoid AoOs.
Fire Shield--over-rated. It's only good if you get hit and you shouldn't be getting hit too much.
Dimension Door--no spell failure. It's the get out of grapples card, the walls of force don't stop me card, and the "hello Mr. Evil wizard behind three ranks of trolls, I'd like ot introduce you to my friend Mr. Fighter/Barbarian" card.
Enervation--Screw your opponents--no save.
Evard's Black Tentacles--another good no-save spell.
Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer--"It's evening and I've a fourth level open slot I haven't used, should I do nothing with it or should I prep an extra ray of enfeeblement and scorching ray to use tomorrow--guaranteed active for 24 hours or your money back?" Tough choice.
20% spell failure is a pain but you can deal with it at low levels. And there is no spell failure for spells without somatic components--True Strike, Light, Feather Fall, Blindness/Deafness, etc.
The comment about wearing armor for one hour a day is a reference to Mage Armor which would only be active for one hour each day.
At low levels, sword and board is a reasonable proposition for the fighter/wizard. You've only got a few spells so odds are you'll only cast one or two per combat. What you do is you carry your weapon and an empty hand at the beginning. Then, after you cast your spell, you ready your shield as you move into position. That way, you don't incur any extra spell failure when casting, and probably don't have a difficulty with not having a free hand to cast a spell. And you get the extra AC of the shield when you want it. And when you don't... you can just use your weapon in two hands.
For your feat and spell choices, Enlarge Person is a very good buff--especially if you use a reach weapon and doubly so if you use Improved Trip (Enlarge improves your trip check by 5 points-- 4 for size and 1 for strength). Don't forget about Ray of Enfeeblement either. That can really knock a foe's strength down so that you're on a more even playing field and puts your foes at an even further disadvantage on the trip check.
This is what I would consider:
Ftr 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes (wield a guisarme)
Ftr 1/Wiz 1: Transmuter is a pretty good specialty but divination (only one banned school) and necromancy (extra Touch of Fatigue, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blindness, Ray of Exhaustion, Enervation, etc).
Ftr 1/Wiz 2: Power Attack
Ftr 1/Wiz 3: Now you've got a number of nifty choices:
Mirror Image-good defense for a couple rounds
Blindness/Deafness--no spell failure offense
Flaming Sphere--something to do with that move action while you're in melee; this effectively gives you two attacks per round: the sphere and your weapon
Alter Self--Get natural armor as a troglodyte
Glitterdust--blind your enemies and beat the tar out of them (also a good substitute for see invisibility in a pinch)
False Life--somewhat makes up for your d4 hit points
Ftr 1/Wiz 4
Ftr 1/Wiz 5: Arcane Strike and a metamagic or item creation feat. If you are willing to suck up the level hit, still spell lets you wear fullplate and cast spells without failure (or a free hand). Extend Spell can come in handy if you're left with an open slot in the evening and nothing to do with it (other than an extended Mage Armor--wohoo, no spell failure anymore--or an extended False Life, etc). Craft Wondrous Item will also be very useful. You can make headbands of intellect, pearls of power, belts of giant strength, gloves of dexterity, boots of speed--all sorts of things to make you effective.
Spells:
Blink-denies foes their dex bonus (good when combined with Expert Tactician (Song and Silence--gives you an extra melee attack against anyone denied their dex bonus)), gives you +2 to hit, gives your foes a 50% miss chance against you, you take half damage from area effect spells, AND you can walk through walls (for a small risk of taking minor damage).
Heroism-Almost makes up for those points of BAB you sacrificed to become a wizard.
Greater Magic Weapon--better when you hit 8th level in 3.5 but still handy and has a long duration.
Ray of Exhaustion--fatigue your foes with no save and a chance of exhausting them. Would be really nice if you went the spring attack route.
Displacement--no spell failure and a 50% miss chance. All around good spell.
Haste--IMO, overrated for fighter/wizards. It's a buff for your party more than it is for you. It's best use is letting you craft boots of speed (which are a free action to activate--any bonusses that don't cost you actions are good).
Ftr 1/Wiz 6
Ftr 1/Wiz 6/Eldritch Knight 1: You get a bonus feat here and have a lot of options with it. Expert Tactican works very well in combination with Blink and should be a priority if you have access to Song and Silence. Quicken Spell will be useful in a couple levels and you have a chance to take it now. Weapon focus will help make up for the BAB you lost. Dodge will start you on the spring attack route (you'll finish a bit late at clvl 12 though). Blindfight never hurt anyone. Close Quarters Fighting is quite a nice feat if you have access to Complete Warrior. Spell focus would be useful if you use a lot of spells in the same school but IMO Spell Penetration--or, even better, Practiced Spellcaster (if you have access to Complete Divine).
Ftr 1/Wiz 6/Eldritch Knight 2 At this point you get your first 4th level spells (and Scorcing Ray becomes useful for the first time, and you get your iterative attack. All told, it's a very good level). You get another feat so continue down whatever train you were working on or pick up Quicken Spell in preparation for gaining 5th level spells or get Expert Tactician.
Good spells:
Stoneskin: Nice but expensive--and more useful on the fighter/barbarian who loses half his hit points every combat than on you (who have a lot of defensive abilities).
Greater Invisibility--triggers expert tactician just like Blink. Makes you hard to see and hit. And, if you're using a reach weapon, opponents can't see you to know what area you threaten and avoid AoOs.
Fire Shield--over-rated. It's only good if you get hit and you shouldn't be getting hit too much.
Dimension Door--no spell failure. It's the get out of grapples card, the walls of force don't stop me card, and the "hello Mr. Evil wizard behind three ranks of trolls, I'd like ot introduce you to my friend Mr. Fighter/Barbarian" card.
Enervation--Screw your opponents--no save.
Evard's Black Tentacles--another good no-save spell.
Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer--"It's evening and I've a fourth level open slot I haven't used, should I do nothing with it or should I prep an extra ray of enfeeblement and scorching ray to use tomorrow--guaranteed active for 24 hours or your money back?" Tough choice.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Elder-Basilisk said:
Well, three on average, once you hit second level.
-Hyp.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
True but you also don't run the risk of rolling a 1 on your fighter level. Not having to gamble what's likely to be 50-70% of your hit points until 4th or 5th level on a single d10 roll is also good.
Hypersmurf said:
two
First Post
Vlos said:
You are aware of course that is a horrible payoff for a 9th level spell?
Why don't you simply cast a quickened True Strike and burn +11 of the "to hit" into +22 damage (with a 2-handed weapon) via power-attack? (note this is a far lower level spell). Or just take the +11 to damage if using a one-handed weapon. 4 spell levels (5th to 9th) is not worth 10 extra points of damage!
9d4 damage equals on average around 20 points of extra damage. That's embaressing for a 9th level spell. Just... embaressing.
Cast meteor storm, for goodness sake!
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MerakSpielman
First Post
You can take Still Spell to completly negate armor penalties for casting, but you'll have to prepare all your somatic-component spells at one level higher. But at least they'll all go off 100% of the time.
Alternately, you could take one level of Sorcerer, and buy lots of wands. You can use them just fine when you're in armor.
Alternately, you could take one level of Sorcerer, and buy lots of wands. You can use them just fine when you're in armor.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Two things are relevant here:
First, it's actually pretty good payoff for a 9th level spell if that spell happens to be Energy Drain and you're fighting a Vampire and his spawn. Energy drain won't do anything to them so you might as well get some use out of it. Ditto if you're packing Quickened maximized Scorching Ray and you happen to be fighting Salamanders, Efreet, or Fire Elementals.
Second, the payoff is actually a lot better than you let on. If you're a Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Spellsword 3 (not an unheard of combo) with the usual equipment, you activate your boots of speed and all of a sudden you've got five attacks (six if you're using Improved Blink/Expert Tactician) all at +9 to hit (which makes your tertiary attack nearly as good as your primary and your fourth attack almost as good as your secondary and +9d4 damage. So that's 45d4 to 54d4 damage plus anything you might get from AoOs in the next round. 113-135 damage IS within a reasonable range for a 9th level spell. And at that point, it's not unreasonable to think that cleave might add in another 9d4 damage to the total. (Of course, that's an ideal situation so it won't come up too often but nodody's going to make you dump a 9th level spell in a non-ideal situation).
Third, by the time you reach high levels, you have more spells than you will use in most adventuring days, so anything that lets you leverage those unused spells and turn them into combat damage is good even if it is inefficient. When you're casting a quickened spell and either attacking or casting another spell most rounds, you're nearly out of things to do. Not so if you have Arcane Strike. With Arcane Strike, you can cast a quickened spell, power up arcane strike and attack.
First, it's actually pretty good payoff for a 9th level spell if that spell happens to be Energy Drain and you're fighting a Vampire and his spawn. Energy drain won't do anything to them so you might as well get some use out of it. Ditto if you're packing Quickened maximized Scorching Ray and you happen to be fighting Salamanders, Efreet, or Fire Elementals.
Second, the payoff is actually a lot better than you let on. If you're a Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Spellsword 3 (not an unheard of combo) with the usual equipment, you activate your boots of speed and all of a sudden you've got five attacks (six if you're using Improved Blink/Expert Tactician) all at +9 to hit (which makes your tertiary attack nearly as good as your primary and your fourth attack almost as good as your secondary and +9d4 damage. So that's 45d4 to 54d4 damage plus anything you might get from AoOs in the next round. 113-135 damage IS within a reasonable range for a 9th level spell. And at that point, it's not unreasonable to think that cleave might add in another 9d4 damage to the total. (Of course, that's an ideal situation so it won't come up too often but nodody's going to make you dump a 9th level spell in a non-ideal situation).
Third, by the time you reach high levels, you have more spells than you will use in most adventuring days, so anything that lets you leverage those unused spells and turn them into combat damage is good even if it is inefficient. When you're casting a quickened spell and either attacking or casting another spell most rounds, you're nearly out of things to do. Not so if you have Arcane Strike. With Arcane Strike, you can cast a quickened spell, power up arcane strike and attack.
two said:
Old Gumphrey
First Post
That probably has a lot to do with Shapechange being busted. 
