Question about how ECL's work

[outlier]

I'm confused on how aquired templates work.

As I understand it, when a character gains a template that has, for example, a +4 LA, he is now considered to be 4 levels higher. He obviously gains no HD or other class-related benefits (he got the template instead), but what about the every-three-level feat or the every-four-level statistic increase? Are those based on HD, total class levels, ECL or what?

Similarly, when a someone wants to start an Nth level character that has a template with, again for example, a +4 level adjustment, it's obvious that they should only have N-4 class levels. What about starting money? Should they start with the amount given in the DMG for their ECL or their total class levels?

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could let me know what book(s) this info is in, since I'm not finding anything about it in the SRD.

 

[Sir Brennen]

See the SRD section on ''Monsters as Races'' - but here are the relevant sections for both questions:

A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases.
[...]
Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character.

 

[outlier]

Thanks - don't know how I missed that one.

 

[dcollins]

In the 3.0 DMG starting wealth would be by class levels only. My opinion is that the 3.5 rule is broken. Consider what happens when a young red dragon takes its 1st level in fighter.

 

[JimAde]

This is something I've been wondering about as well. How do you handle it if a PC acquires a template with a LA? Say he becomes a werebear. That's a +3 LA. Do you just treat him as if he's 3 levels higher and calculate experience appropriately? The rest of the party will (kind of) catch up eventually but it will take a while.

 

[Sir Brennen]

In the 3.0 DMG starting wealth would be by class levels only. My opinion is that the 3.5 rule is broken. Consider what happens when a young red dragon takes its 1st level in fighter.

NPCs don't follow the same wealth rules as PCs. If this young red dragon Ftr 1 (ECL +19) is run by a player in a campaign, he should have the same wealth as the rest of his 20th level PC companions.

If, however, this is an NPC, he should have the treasure indicated in the Monster Manual for a dragon of his age/type, plus whatever a 1st level NPC fighter might have (perhaps not even that, as better equipment could be purchased using his existing treasure...)

edit: Also, remember ECL didn't exist when the DMG 3.0 was written. It was first introduced in the Forgotten Realms campaign guide.

 

[Sir Brennen]

This is something I've been wondering about as well. How do you handle it if a PC acquires a template with a LA? Say he becomes a werebear. That's a +3 LA. Do you just treat him as if he's 3 levels higher and calculate experience appropriately? The rest of the party will (kind of) catch up eventually but it will take a while.

That's essentially how it would work, but remember, as the highest level character in the group, he would earn less experience per encounter, so the rest of the party would catch up eventually. But in the meantime, the werebear is going to dominate combat most of the time, which isn't as much fun for everyone else.

Probably a better approach would be to use the "Savage Progressions" written by Sean K Reynolds over on the WotC site (need to look around in the Article Archives.) That breaks up several LA templates into "class levels" which a character can take one at a time, instead of all at once.

 

[JimAde]

That's essentially how it would work, but remember, as the highest level character in the group, he would earn less experience per encounter, so the rest of the party would catch up eventually. But in the meantime, the werebear is going to dominate combat most of the time, which isn't as much fun for everyone else.

Probably a better approach would be to use the "Savage Progressions" written by Sean K Reynolds over on the WotC site (need to look around in the Article Archives.) That breaks up several LA templates into "class levels" which a character can take one at a time, instead of all at once.

This approach is getting more common, which I think is good. There are class level progressions for various undead creatures in Libris Mortis, for example.

Thanks.