D&D 5E Question about shield master feat: Do I need to hit first?

[Lagross]

In my group we are having an argument about how does "shove a creature works". The feat lets the player, as a bonus action, to try to shove a creature as a bonus action (regardless on when in your turn you decide to make it). The question is, does the player needs to "hit" the creature first and then try to chove using the contest, or does the contest (str vs str/dex) itself is the only thing he needs to make the shove in case the players wins? In one scenario I make a d20 attack role and then the contest, in the other scenario I just make the contest -and in the case of the feat, my attack right after-. Does any one knows where I can find the right answer?

 

[Zinnger]

I have no experience with this feat but in reading it I would operate like this:

Feat states that "If you take the attack action on your turn, you can" (THEN) "use a bonus action to try to shove a creature..." I would rule that you would have to take the attack action which then gives you the option to shove as a bonus action.

I compare the wording and workings with Two Weapon Fighting. "When you take the attack action with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand..." You don't get to swing with your off hand and then decide if you want to swing with your primary hand. I read it as you HAVE TO TAKE the action which is what allows you to use a bonus action FOLLOWING the action taken.

Nothing official on this but this is how I read it and have been running the Two Weapon Fighting in my game. Hope this helps.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Once you commit to making the Attack action you can use the Shove as a bonus action at any time. The shove attack is resolved as an ability contest.

Shoving a Creature
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee
attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or
push it away from you. If you’re able to make multiple
attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces
one of them.
The target of your shove must be no more than one
size larger than you, and it must be within your reach.
You make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the
target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics)
check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you win
the contest, you either knock the target prone or push
it 5 feet away from you.

Timing Tweet on Shield Master feat
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/29/shield-master-feat/

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Jeremy Crawford stated that a character with the Shield Master feat can use shove prone as a bonus action as part of the attack action sequence, and then make an attack (with advantage if the relevant skill check was successful in knocking the foe prone). I have a paladin with this feat, and although it feels cheap to me to gain advantage this way, that's how we've been playing it.

If I can suss out the link to Crawford's statement, I'll post it here.

EDIT: Here's the link to Crawford's statement in Sage Advice. http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/29/shield-master-feat/

 

[CanadienneBacon]

For the record, and speaking only for myself, it's a ruling for which I have a strong distaste. In my experience, it's made game play feel video gamey and boring.

YMMV.

 

[Paraxis]

You can shove before you attack. There is no attack roll for the shove, just the contested athletics vs athletics/acrobatics check.

 

[faria]

Bonus action can come before the action, as long as you commit to using your action to attack. This is why Lance+Shield users take this feat: knock them back (instead of prone) and then attack without disadvantage (not in 5ft range anymore).

It's balanced because it's not "free" advantage. First of all, it's costing you a feat! And second, it also costs you your bonus action every turn... Yeah, you gain advantage after that for your standard action attack, but you could have used your bonus action for something else, like even more damage (Monk's Flurry of Blows) or a useful spell (any bonus action spell). Paladin smite spells (Banishing Smite) are bonus action too.

 

[BookBarbarian]

You do not need to hit with an attack to make the shove attempt as a bonus action. You need only, as pointed out above, take the Attack action.

 

[Coredump]

For the record, and speaking only for myself, it's a ruling for which I have a strong distaste. In my experience, it's made game play feel video gamey and boring.

YMMV.

Interesting, I feel the opposite.

It seems like an arbitrary ruling (IOW, 'gamey') to say you can Strike-Shove or even Strike-Shove-Strike, but you can't Shove-Strike.

 

[Coredump]

Bonus action can come before the action, as long as you commit to using your action to attack. This is why Lance+Shield users take this feat: knock them back (instead of prone) and then attack without disadvantage (not in 5ft range anymore).

I assume they are doing this from horseback?