ZEITGEIST Question about starting Zeitgeist

log in or register to remove this ad


Those are some seriously compound questions! I think the third question was three in one.

Your responses are awesome, though. I've been slacking a bit lately on doing cool stuff for my PCs, I need to step up my game.


First Post
I had just picked up this adventure path for pathfinder recently but I'm noticing a towering amount of removed races and wondering which ones does this adventure path use and why some arent really mentioned much baring a few npcs.

The ones I've noticed have been so far.
Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Aasimar(Eladrin), Tieflings, Gnomes, Half elves, half orcs, half dragons, minotaurs.

Am I missing any? I'm trying to reason out what the PCs could choose from within the realm of the game and if they have any type of position inside the gameworld. So far I think I've seen a single gnome. Elves seem to be half in and half out, for theres enough for being a race driven to extinction.

Also I dont recall seeing a city stat block anywhere which could seriously help trying to flesh out the country/city they start in.

We don't explicitly remove any races; we just don't mention many that aren't in the core rulebook. If you wanted catfolk, they're probably native to Elfaivar or maybe the woods of Risur. Duergar -- maybe they're up in Drakr somewhere. Grippli -- probably in the High Bayou of Risur, or maybe in the Malice Lands.

Basically, anything can fit somewhere, but we didn't want to force groups to include things if they weren't using them.

Also, in the Expanded Player's Guide (and the revised versions of the adventures that are coming for the hardcover) we tweaked the races a bit to get consistent naming between the 4e and PF versions. Basically we added two new races for PF. The 'high elves' are now 'eladrin,' an offshoot from the elf race with their own distinct powers. 'Aasimar' are instead 'devas' -- aasimar never quite fit, and we used them as kind of a kludge for a race that's similar to samsarans. But samsarans still don't quite fit, so we made up devas.

Elves are distinct from eladrin. Elves are still around and doing fine (though they don't have any nations of their own, but rather exist integrated with Risur). Eladrin are the race that lost all its women.


First Post
Thank you for the timely response!

I suppose I was not seeing the difference because of reading the PF version rather than the 4e one. I thought all elves were near extinction (which as a elf hater I rejoiced) but this will make a few players somewhat happy and puts it in perspective where these elves keep sprouting up from.

The main thing I was trying to understand is what races have been or might be mentioned in the future for common humanoids. Sounds most like an eberron type of scenario where all the races for the most part intermingle.

Now just have to convince the player who wants to be a dark brooding kitsune with murdered parents and some special powers that before he chooses to be a movie character he should try to develop a somewhat realistic being to role play. I'm a bit of a stick in the mud when it comes to special snowflakes.
Last edited:


A few more handouts for Adventure 2 (they are supposed to be handwritten in the adventure of course):
-papers found in the warehouse 'Screams and Security'
-two letters owned by the dragonborn brothers 'Factory Aflame'

Dawn Square Lab Papers.jpg




Update on our game at[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=54669&date=1401105890[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Stillon Adventure 2 Dying Skyseer, and things are coming together a littlebit on the fifth day of the adventure.[/FONT]

- 4 PCs go to dawn square and findwarehouse, fight the golem, removing his control mechanism, butdecide he's far too powerful and instead run away (those epic battlesin adventure 1 have scared them obviously).
- the other PC tracks down the escapeddragonborn brother to his secret hideout, sneaks in, steals hisletters, and blows the place up, then rejoins the others at dawnsquare.
-the golem goes out of control and thePCs lure it through Flint to the canal, lasso it and drag it into thecanal where it finally dies.
- the dragonborn brother's letters arehanded to Delft, but of course they are poisoned and delft's eyes arehorribly burned - he is now blind and in hospital.
- Based on evidence in warehouse, PCsdecide that someone in Mayor Macbannin's entourage is the 'Bleak GateKiller' and the big bad.
- in Dawn Square the rally starts. PCsget Gale to summon some canaries to help Nevard, and they getHarkover Lee to blow up the fountain because they are suspicious ofits rusty iron circular form.
- there's a fight with the skeletonsand the jaguars. This turns out to be a little too easy and Nevardlives to make his speech.
-next off to the House Elf andWareye's. Excellent diplomacy gets Danisca onside and her husbandflees.
- at the bayou house the PCs (with twoboats and a squad of marines) ambush and defeat Doern and thesailors, then take their boat and head off to the secret rendezvousdisguised as family contacts.
-at the rendezvous their plan goes sourwhen they don't know the secret codes, so the smugglers abandon theoperation and turn around. PCs catch and board the enemy ship. Nowthey plan on returning it to near Flint, getting the crew off and injail, then sinking it (for Kell, who doen't want it impounded andreturned to the Clergy).


Our Skyseer has a new set of vision questions today:

1. What dangers await us when we go to investigate Macbannin's manor and how can we circumvent them?

2. If we meet with Kell to get the information he promised, will he double-cross us, and how can we avoid falling into a trap?

3. If we enter the Bleak Gate, what challenges will we face and how can we best prepare for them?

Does anyone have any suggestions for suitable responses?

EDIT: came up with these:



Last edited:

I really like your Kell answer.

For the third one, perhaps add something to suggest they won't be going to the Bleak Gate quite yet. Maybe just put a literal 'cloud' filter over the image, so it's still legible but barely. That would reflect what Nevard has said about having a hard time seeing things. (Or more humorously, 'Reply hazy, try again later.')

Oh and Jack, I don't recall if I ever shared the updated statblock for Macbannin to make him a bit more of a challenge. Are you doing 4e or PF? The short version is that I let him use a version of 'bonds of forced faith' so all the damage to him is dealt to the house staff first.


Oh and Jack, I don't recall if I ever shared the updated statblock for Macbannin to make him a bit more of a challenge. Are you doing 4e or PF? The short version is that I let him use a version of 'bonds of forced faith' so all the damage to him is dealt to the house staff first.

I'd love to see the new Macbannin statblock. I read through some of the previous playthroughs and they all mentioned the MacBannin encounter was a bit of a let-down, in terms of encounter balance.

I am playing 4E.

Also - humerous thing just happened an hour ago in the game - one of the PCs complained to Saxby that another PC was bending the rules a bit, in terms of torturing suspects. So Saxby, unhappily, has agreed to call Lord Viscount Inspector Nigel Price-Hill from Flint to come over and investigate. It'll tie in nicely with Adventure 3's audit.


Here's the encounter in the partially laid-out hardcover.
The "missed attack" rules are a little weird - what happens when he takes 12 damage from a missed attack? That's not so far fetched for some dailies. 'Course most DM's won't be thrown by that, I'm sure ;-).


formerly roadtoad
Bonds of Forced Faith and Scholar of Hexes seem to have a negative interaction that will cause Macbannin to only use curses when he's desperate (since he won't take damage until he's out of mooks).

Since in our two games, Macbannin has scared off the constables by dropping nasty curses quickly, I just wanted to make sure that was intended...

Also, what does Hex Touch actually do? "Hexed" is not a 4e condition.

He gives you one of the curses. Is that not clear?

It's supposed to be that he can either apply a curse as a standard action by attacking you, or do it reactively once the bond no longer has people left to eat damage for him.


formerly roadtoad
He gives you one of the curses. Is that not clear?

It's supposed to be that he can either apply a curse as a standard action by attacking you, or do it reactively once the bond no longer has people left to eat damage for him.

Ah. Between calling them hexes in some places and curses in others, I lost track of that.


I'll necro this thread a bit for a small question. One of Nevard's visions is "One man tore himself in two and his twin selves fought over a woman..." etc. which seems to refer to
adventure 8 and Nicodemus fight with Kasvarina
. At least, that how I see it, but the whole vision is really vague, i.e.
second part, about mice and cheese, seems to refer fight with Leone, which happens much earlier
. Can someone give me a word-by-word interpretation? Or maybe this is a remainder of some early version of later adventures?

[sblock]I saw a dark figure, standing atop Cauldron Hill, towering over our city.
Borne, adventure 5.

The sun set, and he cast a shadow across Parity Lake, stretching northwest, into the sea, beyond the horizon.
Technically I should have tweaked this because Borne is likely drawn due west into the harbor, not straight to sea, but whatever.

He is born in our city,
Get it?

but his ultimate goal is elsewhere.
Axis Island.

And also things moved in his shadow—indeed, his shadow moved before he did, for while he was mighty, he was controlled by others. I saw smoke hiding his face, for he was made mighty by industry. In my vision, a king chased him out to sea and defeated him by slicing him free from his shadow.
Adventure five. Also, a reference to Peter Pan, who’s sorta faerie-like, and who had no shadow. The idea being, Aodhan punts Borne into the dreaming.

But the cauldron had already shattered, and many thousands were drowned and devoured in its roil.
Cauldron Hill gets torn apart by Borne, and there’s a risk of witchoil and evil spirits coming out.

I saw three birds alight on the peak, the first of black silk,
Mayor Macbannin, deceptive.

the second of black steel,
The colossus Borne, destructive.

both weeping blood. But the third was made of stars, and it sang many songs.
In adventure ten, a portal opens up in the sky over Cauldron Hill, leading out to the Gyre, a sort of blackhole-esque graveyard of the multiverse. Many dying worlds circle it, being slowly ground to dust, and the party can use them to link to their homeworld instead of the worlds the Obscurati chose. There are many ways it can turn out, based on PC decisions.

I tell you this: Cauldron Hill is not safe. Twice will danger arise, and twice will we be deceived into thinking it is safe to return, but we must avoid the place and avoid being tricked. I have arranged shelter in the Cloudwood, where people can be safe until the darkness passes.
Pretty much what it says on the tin.

A woman sat on a leather couch in a waiting room, surrounded by red curtains. She held a gold coin and rolled it across the back of her fingers. A pick lay against the side of the couch. He asked her what she was waiting for, and she answered in a language he didn’t know, saying, ‘The place I’m going isn’t here yet.’
Xambria, who is trapped in her own head and doing an homage to the Black Lodge of Twin Peaks. She’s going to the Gidim homeworld, which is currently inaccessible.

A trumpeter carried a lantern onto the stage of a darkened theater, and the people gathered for his performance applauded, then lit lanterns of their own. The theater never got bright enough for him to see their faces.
Luc Jierre, heading to the Obscurati palace on Mutravir Island if the party doesn’t stop him.

One man tore himself in two,
Alexander Grappa fighting for control over Leone’s body in adventure seven.

and his twin selves fought over a woman, tearing her into three, who ran away.
Three aspects of Kasvarina – heroic before the Great Malice, withdrawn penitent matriarch after the Great Malice, and callous leader of the Obscurati just before her memories were locked away. Also this parallels the three aspects of Srasama – warrior maiden, healing mother, and murderous crone.

Mice skittered around them, collecting cheese fallen amid the rails of a trainyard. Then a train roared down the track past him, but it had no one driving it. In the distance it derailed, and crushed two of the women, but which of the three survived?
I think there are some mice mentioned in adventure three when you find Grappa’s dead body. Cheese is of course a thing Leone loves, and he ends up hiding in a train yard. The train being unguided is also a vague reference to the colossus being out of control, and its presence forces Kasvarina to decide which version of her she will become.

A man carrying a bronze staff with three keyholes is assailed by swords and arrows and fire, but nothing kills him. He began to take off his robes, revealing tiger fur beneath them, while stars fell from the sky all around him. Then the sky was dark, and when the sun should have risen, instead a pale glowing cloud floated in the dark.
Stanfield, the deva, turning into a rakshasa at the end of adventure nine. I honestly don’t remember what was up with the three-keyhole bronze staff, though.

Finally, tyrant and murderer languished in prison, hanging from twelve chains and hooks that pierced her feet, her legs, her thighs, her shoulders, her arms, and her hands. But the thirteenth hook that sealed her mouth swung loose, and it fluttered in the breeze as she whispered a map that led everywhere.
Ashima-Shimtu in the Crypta Hereticarum, who once released in adventure ten can provide planar information to the PCs, since she predates the Axis Seal.[/sblock]


Thanks a lot, it's very insightful. It's also pretty impressive to have almost full roadmap this early in the AP.
EDIT: Early versions of campaign guide mentioned 3 keys needed to reverse Axis ritual or something like that, maybe that was related to 3 keyholes on the staff

An Advertisement