Question about the new Hold spells

[Grog]

Okay, we know that in 3.5E, you'll get a save every round to break out of a Hold spell. My question is, when does the save happen? Does it happen on the creature's turn, which could concievably give the creature two saves in a row against the spell (if his initative came up right after the spellcaster's)? Or does it happen some other time (like the caster's turn)?

Anyone know for sure?

 

[andargor]

Okay, we know that in 3.5E, you'll get a save every round to break out of a Hold spell.

I thought this was just speculation. Do you have a reference?

Also, there has been debates on the mechanic. Save every round for the duration, Held if failed, free to act if made. Or a variant, if the initial save is made, spell ends, if not, save every round as above. Or just save until it is made, and the spell ends.

Andargor

 

[Grog]

Re: Re: Question about the new Hold spells

I thought this was just speculation. Do you have a reference?

I thought it was confirmed. People have been talking about it like it is. Is it still just a rumor?

 

[Grog]

*bump*

 

[LokiDR]

I am going to guess there will be a complete description in the spell, like "each subsequent round the target makes another save on their turn to break the spell and act freely"

 

[mmu1]

As far as the base mechanic goes, what'd make the most sense to me is if you got a save every round for the duration of the spell, and making the save simply meant you were free to act that round without freeing you from making more saves in subsequent rounds.

When you make the save is another issue... It probably ought to be on the same Initiative as you got Held, to keep it consistent.

 

[Henry]

This change to Hold person and all the hold monster spells was highlighted in one of the 3.5 edition articles in Dragon Magazine a month or two back. No specifics were given, other than "you get a save each round to break the spell." This was done because they felt that spells which made the opponents sit out the combat just because of one failed save was unfair. It was also why many of the spells such as Wail of the banshee, disintengration, destruction, and implosion were altered; they now do extra dice of damage, with the implosion/disintegration/death occurring if the target goes below zero hit points.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It was also why many of the spells such as Wail of the banshee, disintengration, destruction, and implosion were altered; they now do extra dice of damage, with the implosion/disintegration/death occurring if the target goes below zero hit points.

I'll wait until the rules are out to pass final judgment, but this still seems wrong to me. So in 3.5e, a wizard can no longer instantly kill a fighter, but the fighter's full attack will still pulp the wizard in a single go? Where's the justice in that?

 

[Malcer]

Hold Spells

I think that Andy Collins alluded to the mechanic on his boards as being similar to stabilizing after being dropped below zero hitpoints.

That might mean that additional saves against hold spells will be more difficult than the initial save that failed.

 

[Grog]

Well, I hope the save doesn't happen at the beginning of the target's turn. They've weakened the spells enough already - if the target was potentially able to get two saves in a row, it would be much worse. I hope they make it so that the additional saves don't start until one round after the target gets held.