Question anent "RotG -- Making Magic Items"

[Jeff Wilder]

At several points in this series, Skip has listed caster level as a prerequisite; i.e., he's said that the creator must have a caster level equal to that listed for the item.

For some reason, I've been under the very strong impression that this was not actually the case. That the caster level listed for magic items wasn't intended as a prerequisite, but rather just as an objective measure of the item's power, should one be need (e.g., for dispel checks). In the syntax of the magic item listings, caster level is set off from the list of prerequisites by a semi-colon; why do this if it is actually a prereq? In any event, I'm sure I've read somewhere that caster level was not intended as a prereq.

Can somebody set me straight? Am I wrong in this impression? Why do I have it?

 

[Darkness]

This has been up for debate since 3.0, with designers saying it isn't and IIRC the book saying it is.

AFAIK, the original intent was that the caster level given is the minimum level needed for the prerequisites - but if you can meet the prerequisites at a lower level (though prestige classes, feats or whatever), you can create the item, too. (With lower level-dependent statistics, obviously, where applicable.)

This makes the most sense, too, but it's certainly possible that the official WotC position says something else.

 

[Ashardalon]

According to the DMG errata:

Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster
Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

I'm taking that to mean that, no, Caster level is not always a prerequisite.

 

[Bad Paper]

of course caster level is a prereq. How could you create something with a higher caster level than your own? Can a first-level wizard create a scroll with a twenty-minute shield spell? Not in my game.

If you manage to fudge your caster level higher somehow (e.g. the archmage's spell power ability) then you can probably cut corners, but yeah, I make sure that caster levels are always fulfilled. Otherwise you'd have fifth-level wizards making +5 swords.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

of course caster level is a prereq. How could you create something with a higher caster level than your own? Can a first-level wizard create a scroll with a twenty-minute shield spell? Not in my game.

If you manage to fudge your caster level higher somehow (e.g. the archmage's spell power ability) then you can probably cut corners, but yeah, I make sure that caster levels are always fulfilled. Otherwise you'd have fifth-level wizards making +5 swords.

Actually, a 5th-level Wizard cannot make +5 Enhancement bonus swords because an Enhancement bonus has a special prereq - that the caster level of the creator must be at least 3x the bonus.

He could, however, create a +10 equivalent bonus sword, so long as it was a +1 weapon with all kinds of nifty abilities (and he had enough XP and gold to spare! ).

 

[UltimaGabe]

of course caster level is a prereq. How could you create something with a higher caster level than your own? Can a first-level wizard create a scroll with a twenty-minute shield spell? Not in my game.

If you manage to fudge your caster level higher somehow (e.g. the archmage's spell power ability) then you can probably cut corners, but yeah, I make sure that caster levels are always fulfilled. Otherwise you'd have fifth-level wizards making +5 swords.

By your own logic (and the DMG's), it takes a 20th-level Wizard to make a single Universal Solvent. The single-use item costing 50 gp that dissolves Sovereign glue can only be made by a 20th-level caster, since in the DMG, its "Caster Level" entry reads "20th".

Most of the items in the game have ridiculous caster levels, such as the Universal Solvent. Although you meet all of the prerequisites stated in the prerequisite section, as the rules are written, you still can't make the item until you get high enough to meet the "Caster Level" entry. And yet, certain items (such as enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor, or a Spell Storing weapon) still include a caster level as a prerequisite (for example, if the "Caster Level" entry is a prerequisite, then why does the Spell Storing special ability need to include "Caster must be 12th level or higher" if it's already stated?).

As Darkness said, the writers keep saying that it's NOT a prerequisite, which makes perfect sense. However, every single time they come out with a new revision (or anything labeled as "canon") they screw it up. Every single time. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing- or, in this case, nobody knows what anybody's doing.

 

[Knight Otu]

of course caster level is a prereq. How could you create something with a higher caster level than your own? Can a first-level wizard create a scroll with a twenty-minute shield spell? Not in my game.

Obviously, you cannot. But that is not a prerequisite, but a limit. You can usually set the caster level between the minimum caster level required for the highest level prerequisite, and your actual caster level.
As already said, magic weapons have a caster level prerequisite, and barring special cases, Universal Solvent requires a minimum caster level of 11 (due to the disintegrate prereq).

 

[dcollins]

For some reason, I've been under the very strong impression that this was not actually the case.

Yep, it's pretty easy to say that this is the most confusing point in the 3rd Edition rules, because designers have explicitly contradicted what's written in the books.

Short story is:
(1) 3.0 DMG says "yes", caster levels are prerequistes. (For non-potions/scrolls/wands.)
(2) Monte Cook writes "no", they are not.
(3) Sean Reynolds accidentally says that 3.0 errata fixes it to "no", but he's mistaken.
(4) 3.5 DMG identical to 3.0, says "yes".
(5) Monte Cook agrees that the rules say "yes", but shouldn't have.
(6) Andy Collins says "no".
(7) 3.5 DMG errata says "no".
Personally, I feel that the 3.5 errata doesn't make any sense on this point.

Longer story here:
http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/dndfaq2b.html

 

[beaver1024]

Yep, it's pretty easy to say that this is the most confusing point in the 3rd Edition rules, because designers have explicitly contradicted what's written in the books.

Short story is:
(1) 3.0 DMG says "yes", caster levels are prerequistes. (For non-potions/scrolls/wands.)
(2) Monte Cook writes "no", they are not.
(3) Sean Reynolds accidentally says that 3.0 errata fixes it to "no", but he's mistaken.
(4) 3.5 DMG identical to 3.0, says "yes".
(5) Monte Cook agrees that the rules say "yes", but shouldn't have.
(6) Andy Collins says "no".
(7) 3.5 DMG errata says "no".
Personally, I feel that the 3.5 errata doesn't make any sense on this point.

Longer story here:
http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/dndfaq2b.html

You forgot (8) Rules of the game: Making magic items, in effect Skip, now says "yes" (again).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Personally, I feel that the Errata is the only thing that *does* make sense.

Why?

Because why is it only possible for 17th-level Wizards to create a Pearl of Power that allows a user to recall a single 1st-level spell once per day, while an 11th-level Wizard can create a Ring of Wizardry that doubles the number of available 1st-level spells?

That really just doesn't make sense. Other examples abound, like the 9th-level Wizard who can make a +3 longsword (CL 9, Effective bonus +3), but not a +1 flaming sword (CL 10, Effective bonus +2), let alone a +1 flaming burst longsword (CL 12, Effective bonus +3).

And why does Flaming (CL: 10; 1d6 Fire damage; +1 effective bonus; Prereq Spell: fireball - 3rd) have a higher "prerequisite" than Frost (CL: 8; 1d6 Cold damage; +1 effective bonus; Prereq Spell: ice storm - 4th) or Shock (CL: 8; 1d6 Electrical damagel +1 effective bonus; Prereq Spell: lightning bolt - 3rd)?

The *real* reason is that it's not a prerequisite at all. It's an example of an average enhancement of that type when found on a randomly generated weapon for ease of DM use should a targeted dispel magic ever turn up.