Level Up (A5E) Question: Battle Hymn's

Vildara

Explorer
One of players has taken the Battle Hymn Song of Clarity. On the surface these seem obvious, but then it gets complex.
  • Song of Clarity: Choose one creature within 60 feet. At the start of its turn, the chosen creature may expend and roll one of its hit dice to regain hit points.

  • Battle Hymn: At the start of your turn, you can activate a battle hymn by expending a use of Bardic Inspiration (no action is required). Performing a battle hymn requires your concentration, as though you were casting a spell. Once activated, a battle hymn continues until you choose to end it or lose concentration, or if activated during a combat whenever the combat ends.
Does this mean that a bard can:
  • Let the same person spend a HD at the start of every round?
  • Choose a different person to do this every round?
  • Sing it once, ignoring all that stuff about concentration and continuing the song?
 

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Anselm

Adventurer
The Battle Hymn is activated at the start of the Bard's turn. The hit die can be spent at the start of the targeted creature's turn, as long as the bard maintains concentration till that creature's turn.

Does this mean that a bard can:
  • Let the same person spend a HD at the start of every round?
  • Choose a different person to do this every round?
  • Sing it once, ignoring all that stuff about concentration and continuing the song?
From my reading:
  • Yes, as long as the bard maintains concentration. if the bard drops concentration, it could choose the same creature at the start of its next turn, spending another bardic inspiration die.
  • Yes, as long as the bard maintains concentration till that creature's turn. It would require spending a bardic inspiration die each time.
  • Yes but then there's no effect at the top of the targeted creature's turn, effectively wasting the bardic inspiration die.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
One of players has taken the Battle Hymn Song of Clarity. On the surface these seem obvious, but then it gets complex.
  • Song of Clarity: Choose one creature within 60 feet. At the start of its turn, the chosen creature may expend and roll one of its hit dice to regain hit points.

  • Battle Hymn: At the start of your turn, you can activate a battle hymn by expending a use of Bardic Inspiration (no action is required). Performing a battle hymn requires your concentration, as though you were casting a spell. Once activated, a battle hymn continues until you choose to end it or lose concentration, or if activated during a combat whenever the combat ends.
Does this mean that a bard can:
  • Let the same person spend a HD at the start of every round?
  • Choose a different person to do this every round?
  • Sing it once, ignoring all that stuff about concentration and continuing the song?
The Battle Hymn class feature allows you to spend a bardic inspiration & choose a specific hymn that repeats each round. The individual battle hymn allows you to choose a creature. There is no reason to assume that the repeat each round would jump to the middle of the specific hym & you can see evidence of this in the example bard cenya
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Vildara

Explorer
So the summary is:
  1. Spend Inspiration Die as a free action
  2. Bard selects any player
  3. Player spends a HD to get HP back
  4. Round Ends
  5. Loop to #2 until they stop singing or break concentration or everyone is out of HD and there is not point.
 

lichmaster

Adventurer
So the summary is:
  1. Spend Inspiration Die as a free action
  2. Bard selects any player
  3. Player spends a HD to get HP back
  4. Round Ends
  5. Loop to #2 until they stop singing or break concentration or everyone is out of HD and there is not point.
The creature gets HP back at the beginning of its turn though, it's not instant. It seems a small thing but may be important.
Imagine there's a wounded character and the bard wants to help him by using this Battle Hymn, and the bard's turn is before the wounded ally.
The bard activates BH and proceeds with his turn. Even assuming he doesn't lose concentration, if there's an enemy between their turns and the enemy manages to attack the wounded ally, it might drop him to 0hp before he has a chance to spend his HD to heal.
At that point I think the unconscious character may not be allowed to roll his HD, thus the Battle hymn would be wasted this round.
 


Stalker0

Legend
So if you are unconscious, then the question is "do you get to spend your HD first, or roll your death save"

I probably would just let the player take all of their "at the beginning of the round" effects in whichever order they prefer, and my monsters the same way.
 

lichmaster

Adventurer
So if you are unconscious, then the question is "do you get to spend your HD first, or roll your death save"

I probably would just let the player take all of their "at the beginning of the round" effects in whichever order they prefer, and my monsters the same way.
I think the question is "Can you roll HD if you're unconscious and not stable?"
Because if you cant, then there's no doubt that you'll have to roll a Death save. If you can instead your question becomes relevant, although the outcome won't, as after spending even a single HD the PC will be conscious again, no further death rolls needed
 

MarkB

Legend
I think the question is "Can you roll HD if you're unconscious and not stable?"
I'm still not totally familiar with A5E, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the O5E rules which specifically prevents you from doing so.
Because if you cant, then there's no doubt that you'll have to roll a Death save. If you can instead your question becomes relevant, although the outcome won't, as after spending even a single HD the PC will be conscious again, no further death rolls needed
Unless it was their last death save. If they fail it and die, they definitely can't spend a hit die at that point.

I would go with @Stalker0's suggestion though - let the player perform start-of-round activities in whatever order they prefer.
 

lichmaster

Adventurer
I'm still not totally familiar with A5E, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the O5E rules which specifically prevents you from doing so.
Well, in o5e when you're at 0 hp you're unconscious and incapacitated. Thus you cannot take any action or reaction. Spending HD is not classified as either, but at the same time it's not a regeneration like effect. I don't know if any of this changed in a5e.
Unless it was their last death save. If they fail it and die, they definitely can't spend a hit die at that point.

I would go with @Stalker0's suggestion though - let the player perform start-of-round activities in whatever order they prefer.
Sure, but because the death save may result in dying while spending the HD will always get you back to consciousness and positive HP, I think it's pretty much guaranteed there will always be one choice, i.e. spending HD.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Well, in o5e when you're at 0 hp you're unconscious and incapacitated. Thus you cannot take any action or reaction. Spending HD is not classified as either, but at the same time it's not a regeneration like effect. I don't know if any of this changed in a5e.

Sure, but because the death save may result in dying while spending the HD will always get you back to consciousness and positive HP, I think it's pretty much guaranteed there will always be one choice, i.e. spending HD.
I think in a5e, the death save the hit die spending or even being hit by healing word will give you a le sl of strife & fatigue when whichever brings you back.
 


Faolyn

(she/her)
Well, in o5e when you're at 0 hp you're unconscious and incapacitated. Thus you cannot take any action or reaction. Spending HD is not classified as either, but at the same time it's not a regeneration like effect. I don't know if any of this changed in a5e.
Maybe this should just be treated as a Rule of Cool thing? Your music is so awesome that it can bring the mostly-dead back to life.
 

MarkB

Legend
Maybe this should just be treated as a Rule of Cool thing? Your music is so awesome that it can bring the mostly-dead back to life.
The Battle Hymn ability specifically doesn't require targets to see or hear you, so I think we can take it as being an actual magical effect, not just a supercharged morale booster.
 




Zaukrie

New Publisher
I would prefer if the target had to hear a hymn for it to work. These are, fictionally, inspiration,imo. Hard to be inspired if you can't hear, or sense, it

That said, RAW..... No need to hear.
 


Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of our horde;
We are trampling out the dungeons where the gold and gems are stored;
We march with prayers, lightning, and our fierce and stealthy swords;
Our party marches on!

Glory, glory, glory, hallelujah...
 

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