Question for the Old Schoolers

[Keldryn]

Would you say something was lost in transition for Forgotten Realms from D&D 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition?

Echoing what some others have said, I think that the 3e Edition Forgotten Realms was superior to the 2e incarnation. It didn't lose anything good or worthwhile in the transition, in my opinion, as it tidied up what had become a very bloated setting. I am of course only talking about the 3e FR Campaign Guide, not the multiple supplemental volumes which followed it.

It was the transition from 1e to 2e where the Realms really lost something. The original grey box plus the FR1 through about FR5 supplements made for a pretty good setting that facilitated most any kind of campaign.

The Forgotten Realms lost a lot in the transition to 2e through the Avatar Trilogy of novels/modules, but I didn't realize it at the time. It turned what was presented as an open-ended setting into a bigger and messier version of Dragonlance. Shortly into the lifespan of 2e, the Forgotten Realms had turned into a marketable brand name and platform for publishing novels, and its usefulness as a game setting suffered for it.

The 2e to 3e transition cleaned things up a little, but it didn't fundamentally change the nature of the setting.

 

[Glade Riven]

Okay, new question...

Would you say Nettier Vale and the whole Points of Light thing for 4e is reminiscent of 1e Forgotten Realms?

 

[Stormonu]

Okay, new question...

Would you say Nettier Vale and the whole Points of Light thing for 4e is reminiscent of 1e Forgotten Realms?

Not in the slightest. It strikes me as more Greyhawkish, actually.

Sidenote: Fan of the gray box, lost interest in FR after the Time of Troubles debacle.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Would you say something was lost in transition for Forgotten Realms from D&D 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition?

Overall:

1 -- The Forgotten Realms in AD&D 1e... I had read Ed's many articles in Dragon magazine and had enjoyed them all. All About Elminster was a bit over the top, but all DMs have their personal characters. Despite the large number of typographical and grammar errors, hideous tendency to use overly large page margins, and other issues, I absolutely adored this edition of the game. The maps were astounding.

2 -- The Forgotten Realms gained something from AD&D 1e to AD&D 2e, and that gain, the effects of the Time of Troubles, was a loss. Right here, the Avatar trilogy that invested the Time of Trouble into The Forgotten Realms, is where my current dislike of gaming fiction began. An entire awful idea created and splatted onto a beautiful campaign world for the specious idea that it was necessary to present the changes from AD&D 1e to AD&D 2e mechanics. Nonsense.

3 -- The Forgotten Realms in AD&D 2e did not impress me. I bought only a handful of its products, even though I bought quite a bit of AD&D 2e itself.

4 -- The Forgotten Realms in D&D 3.x was a breath of fresh air. Although the effects of the Time of Troubles were still included, they were far enough in the past to be safely ignored. I just left out wild magic and references to deity changes. Some of the later splat books were only so-so, but you can't have everything. The overwhelming effects of the novels on the game setting, however, further cemented my dislike of gaming novels. I have come to despise references to novel events in my game books. Yes, I realize I'm probably a minority on that.

5 -- The Forgotten Realms in D&D 4.x... I picked up the campaign book when it was first released. A combination of a dislike for 4e mechanics and its writing style (I got the strong feeling I was being talked down to), and for what happened in the advancement of the FR's history, kept me from buying it. I still haven't bought any 4e.

I remember when I heard about the changes. I asked Rich Baker whether he thought there would be any issues since the Dragonlance: Fifth Age line did the same thing and it split the fan base. He said no, as this was still D&D and didn't change to another system like DL did (SAGA).

It split me off.

I love the Realms, but I love "my" Realms. "Canon" does not exist in my Realms games. Except "my" Canon.

Preach that and I will attend.

I'm so old school, I hate FR for ruining Greyhawk.

FR didn't ruin Greyhawk any more than Planescape, Spelljammer, or Dark Sun ruined each other or FR. TSR did not support Greyhawk and this was probably caused by the ouster of Mr. Gygax. Blame that.

 

[Starfox]

I tried reading FR for 2nd and maybe even 1st editions and didn't like it. Seemed to chaotic, the countries bunched up randomly, too much made-for-adventure. And the production values sucked. And I absolutely hated Elminster. I must admit I never read into it deeply as the lack of surface polish repelled me. Besides, who needed this new-fanged setting when Greyhawk was perfectly good and hung together much better - and had that beautiful Darlene map.

Then I saw 3E FR, and was amazed by the production values. Beautiful maps, great pics. I still didn't like the made-for-adventure feeling and the power spread was too great for my taste - too many goblin-powers in one Elminster. Still, it was a very beautiful set and the fluff was very enjoyable. I never DMed 3E FR, but I played there and enjoyed it. I bought most of the books late and on sale.

I don't hate 4E FR with the passion many seem to have, but I don't particularly like it either. It is still pretty. The drastic changes don't faze me so much, as I think the world was not that well put together to start with.

 

[Glade Riven]

Well, I'd like to thank those who've posted. It's been very informative.

 

[Terath Ninir]

[grumpy old man]The Forgotten Realms lost a lot going from the Dragon Magazine article to the grey boxed set.[/grumpy old man]

Seriously, the pantheon he had in the ancient Dragon magazine articles kicked the ass of the published one.

I was always a Greyhawk fan, though. And I never forgave FR for what they did to the drow. They used to be a perfectly fine evil race. Until Drizzt the Dippy came along. Grr. Ruined rangers, too.

I guess I turned the Grumpy Old Man tag off too soon.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

ould you say Nettier Vale and the whole Points of Light thing for 4e is reminiscent of 1e Forgotten Realms?

The Grand Duchy of Karameikos (from the Known World campaign setting on Mystara) more than anything else. Some similarities are eerie. Greyhawk would be the next nearest. But of the versions of the Realms, I think the gray box would be the nearest version of FR to Nentir Vale.

 

[amerigoV]

I had little experience with FR until 3e. I did, in eager anticipation of the 3e FRCS buy and download the 2e version. My anticipation of the 3e FRCS was from curiosity on how they integrated a game world to the new system. I got the 2e version to get up to speed on the world while waiting for the 3e version to be released. While I did not read the 2e version all the way through and study every page, I will say what I did read ALMOST prevented me from buying the 3e FRCS. I am glad I overcame the bias as the 3e version is very good in my opinion.

While I do prefer Eberron and, recently, Greyhawk to FR, I think the 3e FRCS is a wonderful book and a standard that I compare a published game world when it comes to layout, information, presentation, and most importantly ideas. I would not hesitate to recommend that book regardless of edition (it has a very high "good stuff" to crunch ratio). The supplements after that ranged from very good (Silver Marches) to Dung (Faiths and Pantheons).

I do not have the 4e version nor any version prior to 2e and thus cannot comment on them.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'd say the 3e FR gained a lot. Besides beautiful and well-written books, it gained the coherence of the new ruleset. That being said, 3e FR did lose one very important thing:

Bioware.