question of evil
- Thread starter Paeter
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SorvahrSpahr
First Post
interesting question...the way i ruled it is, the dragons tend to bond with the first creature they see, but they'll always keep some of their evil/good nature. So in my campaigns it would be possible to train a black dragon, straight from the egg, into a "good" creature, although it would have a short fuse, if pushed too far, it could headbutt his problems away.
Look at the alignment line in the Black Dragon entry in the Monster Manual:
If it said, "Usually chaotic evil", I might be more open to the suggestion that the black dragon's alignment was more a function of "nurture", rather than "nature". If a race's alignment entry says "Usually (blank) evil", it suggests that they're evil, at least in part, because they're raised that way...and, therefore, if raised to be "not evil", maybe it'd stick.
For example, ogres are "Usually chaotic evil". If a kindly farmer found an ogre baby, and raised it in a loving, "good" enviromnent, it's entirely possible that you'd wind up with a good-aligned ogre as an adult (and, in fact, "the misunderstood, good-aligned member of a normally evil race" is a story element that's been used many, many times in D&D adventures).
However, dragons (at least the 10 "true dragons" in the MM) are always of a particular alignment (wrt law/chaos as well as good/evil). This suggests that there's something hardwired into the species that makes them that particular alignment, and thus, trying to raise them to be of a different alignment should be futile.
If it said, "Usually chaotic evil", I might be more open to the suggestion that the black dragon's alignment was more a function of "nurture", rather than "nature". If a race's alignment entry says "Usually (blank) evil", it suggests that they're evil, at least in part, because they're raised that way...and, therefore, if raised to be "not evil", maybe it'd stick.
For example, ogres are "Usually chaotic evil". If a kindly farmer found an ogre baby, and raised it in a loving, "good" enviromnent, it's entirely possible that you'd wind up with a good-aligned ogre as an adult (and, in fact, "the misunderstood, good-aligned member of a normally evil race" is a story element that's been used many, many times in D&D adventures).
However, dragons (at least the 10 "true dragons" in the MM) are always of a particular alignment (wrt law/chaos as well as good/evil). This suggests that there's something hardwired into the species that makes them that particular alignment, and thus, trying to raise them to be of a different alignment should be futile.
Last edited:
Plot-Device
First Post
Unless you're on ebberon.
It's possible for anything to change alignments. If nothing else you can cast Santify from the BoED.They even use a red dragon as an example. There are all sorts of adventure that involve redeemed demons or fallen angels.
If you grab the egg before the dragon becomes sentient while still in the egg, manage to keep the egg in its proper hatching conditions as per the Draconomicon, and raise it in goodness, I'd say it'd turn out good.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=169450
Read that.
It's possible for anything to change alignments. If nothing else you can cast Santify from the BoED.They even use a red dragon as an example. There are all sorts of adventure that involve redeemed demons or fallen angels.
If you grab the egg before the dragon becomes sentient while still in the egg, manage to keep the egg in its proper hatching conditions as per the Draconomicon, and raise it in goodness, I'd say it'd turn out good.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=169450
Read that.
Sejs
First Post
Also bear in mind that "Always" doesn't exactly mean 100% every one all the time - it means the vast overwhelming majority are that alignment and that any possible exception are basically 1 in a million.
So in theory they -can- happen, but just in the normal course of things they don't.
Ultimatly, as with pretty much all things, it depends on the DM.
So in theory they -can- happen, but just in the normal course of things they don't.
Ultimatly, as with pretty much all things, it depends on the DM.
TheNovaLord
First Post
I always took it if something had the no dual nature feature then it could only be that alignment? I dunno if dragons have that. Id say unless said dragon did little in his life eventually it would strike out etc as some seemingly tame tigers etc do. I think being fairly intelligent as soon as it realised its mighty and proud heritage it may revert to type, or very close to it.
JohnD
JohnD
RigaMortus2
First Post
I'm going to side with the "If it says Always evil, then it really is Always evil" crowd. How can something be Always Evil only 99.9% of the time?
That of course is according to RAW (IMO).
Now I personally play (and my DM personally plays) that there are always extenuating circumstances. So basically we ignore the Always evil part for our campaigns. I guess you could says her house rule it, but that is what works for our games. I'd suggest you ask the DM what works for your games.
That of course is according to RAW (IMO).
Now I personally play (and my DM personally plays) that there are always extenuating circumstances. So basically we ignore the Always evil part for our campaigns. I guess you could says her house rule it, but that is what works for our games. I'd suggest you ask the DM what works for your games.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Sejs said:
Well, 100% of them are born Chaotic Evil. Rare exceptions might change to a different alignment.
From the Monster Manual:
Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions.
Usually: The majority (more than 50%) of these creatures have the given alignment. This may be due to strong cultural influences, or it may be a legacy of the creatures' origin. For example, most elves inherited their chaotic good alignment from their creator, the deity Corellon Larethian.
Often: The creature tends toward the given alignment, either by nature or nurture, but not strongly. A plurality (40-50%) of individuals have the given alignment, but exceptions are common.
-Hyp.
Azalnubizar
Explorer
that's interesting... I always thought always always meant always and not most of the time...
...allthough, I would suggest to have it still be DMs-Call (I, for myself, wouldn't allow an alignment-change in a demon... mmmh... allthough, there are fallen angels - why not "risen demons"?)
but back to the topic - I do NOT believe in "training" a black dragon to be good.
If what I read is correct, black dragons are inheritly born to be evil... and since they aren't animals, they cannot be trained to be something else. IMO, if you really want to give it a try, you need to convince him, somehow, that his ways are wrong and that your ways are right... Since the evil-way is born into them it will certainly not be easy to convince him/her and even if he believes it (finally) he may allways be prone to fall back into his/her old nature...
just my 2 cents
...allthough, I would suggest to have it still be DMs-Call (I, for myself, wouldn't allow an alignment-change in a demon... mmmh... allthough, there are fallen angels - why not "risen demons"?)
but back to the topic - I do NOT believe in "training" a black dragon to be good.
If what I read is correct, black dragons are inheritly born to be evil... and since they aren't animals, they cannot be trained to be something else. IMO, if you really want to give it a try, you need to convince him, somehow, that his ways are wrong and that your ways are right... Since the evil-way is born into them it will certainly not be easy to convince him/her and even if he believes it (finally) he may allways be prone to fall back into his/her old nature...
just my 2 cents
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