question on analyzing character classes

[wizardoftheplains]

Has anyone on this board every broken down the respective power levels of the different character classes in a spreadsheet, and if so, could you point me to where I can get it?

I'm looking for a better way to come up with homebrewed classes that fit within the 3E system. Though I love the game, some of the starting character classes still seem a bit unbalanced in 3E (but better than before) and I think from the many 'adjusted' versions of the base characters floating around that others feel the same way. Things like the thief getting all those skill points at first level, but only if you go with it at first level.

I'd like to know if anyone has come up with a way to invent new classes other than continually testing and adjusting them in regular play.

Can any of you point me in the right direction.

Thanks

 

[Wicht]

What's unbalancing about the rogue's skill points at 1st level, that and sneak attack are the two main benefits of having a rogue.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

What's unbalancing about the rogue's skill points at 1st level, that and sneak attack are the two main benefits of having a rogue.

I think what he means is it's far more beneficial, if you plan on multiclassing as a rogue and something else, to take your first level as rogue. A rogue/sorceror isn't the same thing as a sorceror/rogue, and that doesnt' really make sense.

 

[wizardoftheplains]

yes, meepo. that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for helping me clarify my question.
I should have been a bit clearer in my opening post.

From a role-playing perspective all classes are balanced for me.
But from a strategic stat/point/power perspective it becomes quite difficult to break them down (at least for me.)
I play 3E for the role-playing aspect first, but as I enjoy the crunchy bits of the game a lot also, I'd like a way to chart out the relative pros and cons of playing each character type (statistically.)

I would always choose thief first, just to the points and optimize, if I was going to multi-class with a thief as one of the classes.

Thanks

 

[Ravellion]

I would always choose thief first, just to the points and optimize, if I was going to multi-class with a thief as one of the classes.

It's Rogue, not thief. Anyway, I don't think someone did this before. Someone did do a poll on what the most played character classes were though...

Wait...!

Karinsdad, he actually did have an analysis! Does anyone know if he is around still? I haven't noticed him for a while.

Rav

 

[EarthsShadow]

This point boils down the issue of why should classes themselves dictate how many skill points a person gets and their class skills.

With this question, it does make more sense from a roleplaying standpoint that the amount of skill points and core skills/class skills should depend on race, upbringing, and then modified by whichever class taken. But, that would mean redesigning the whole system, and who wants to do that.

 

[wizardoftheplains]

It's Rogue, not thief. Anyway, I don't think someone did this before. Someone did do a poll on what the most played character classes were though...

Wait...!

Karinsdad, he actually did have an analysis! Does anyone know if he is around still? I haven't noticed him for a while.

Rav

oops. 'thief' was the 1 and 2E player coming out in me. I'll Rogue it from now on.

 

[wizardoftheplains]

This point boils down the issue of why should classes themselves dictate how many skill points a person gets and their class skills.

With this question, it does make more sense from a roleplaying standpoint that the amount of skill points and core skills/class skills should depend on race, upbringing, and then modified by whichever class taken. But, that would mean redesigning the whole system, and who wants to do that.

I like this idea. Reminds me of early Traveler and 1980's Star Trek rpg character generation. I believe both had your skills and abilities dependant upon how you rolled you pre-game history. 4E anyone?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I too am really interested in a total analysis of the way classes balance, primarily as a guideline for creating my own classes.

I have noticed one trend: within the classes in a group (warrior, wizard, thief, or priest) the number of skill points you get per level varies according to the number of first level weapon and armor proficiencies you get.

Rangers and Barbarians have one fewer armor proficiencesand get two more points per level than fighters and paladins.

Druids get some martial weapon proficiences clerics lack, but they are lacking the heavy armor proficiency and can only use one of the medium armors and can't use most of the simple ranged missile weapons. Druids get two more skill points.

Rogues have many more restrictions on their armor and weapon use than bards but I believe that they also get more points as a class ability.

That's the only mostly hard and fast rule I have been able to cipher through. Figuring out how the spell lists are balanced strikes me as a horror of work.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

A rogue/sorceror isn't the same thing as a sorceror/rogue, and that doesnt' really make sense.

Yes it does. Let's hypothesize two 18 year-old first level characters: Bob the Rogue and Tom the Sorceror.

Bob has been a runner for the local Thieves Guild since he could run. He's had years to pick up lots and lots of applicable skills.

Tom has been training his body and mind to channel magic since he first developed the ability at somewhere around puberty. He's been pretty busy with that and abusing his Charisma score to get some action from tavern wenches, so he's had less time to pick up lots o' skills.

Bob and Tom meet each other, and conclude that each other's skills would be handy.

Tom starts to learn some thieving skills, but seeing as he doesn't have his entire youth to devote to it, he gets fewer skills than Bob did by the time he gains 1st level in Rogue. Makes sense to me.

If anything, what doesn't make sense is how fast Bob builds up his ability to cast spells. Despite the tavern wenches, it still took Tom a LOT longer to get that level of magical ability.

So it's not the skills that fail to make sense, IMO. It's the spellcasting.