Question on the Lich template

TheLordWinter

First Post
The Lich template grants the power "spellmaster." It says specifically that the lich "regains the use of an expended encounter power." Does this only apply to powers with the encounter keyword, or can it auto-recharge a recharging power?
 

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James McMurray

First Post
Recharge powers are not encounter powers, so they don't count. But like Firelance, I don't see a problem with allowing it, though if some crazy combo appeared because of it I wouldn't use it. But for general purposes, it's probably ok. I definitely wouldn't use it on recharge powers that allow the creature to automatically avoid attacks, as those powers used too frequently make a tense fight tiresome.
 

brehobit

Explorer
First of all, it is worth noting that the devastator has an identical ability (recharges only on a six, otherwise the same thing). For the elite I attached this to, the power up from allowing recharge abilities is large. That said, I think it is within the intent of the power so I allowed it.

mark
 

TheLordWinter

First Post
That's part of the problem, I'm not sure if it'll make the fight too difficult or not. I have a death knight with the lich template. It could dramatically increase the refresh rate on Unholy Flames, which would make a death knight and undead minions a very scary fight.
 

James McMurray

First Post
What is the party makeup? If there's a nuker cleric in the group it's fine, or if there's a couple of leaders, a paladin, or other multiple methods of healing. A wizard that constantly memorizes Resistance would also help.

On a seperate level, why is the death knight a lich? Liches are usually arcane creatures, and the power's name "Spellmaster" also makes it look like it's meant for arcane abilities. Death knights are usually soldiers and defenders with martial prowess.

Perhaps another template than Lich would fit better, and avoid issues of recharging via spellmaster?
 

Webby140

First Post
On a seperate level, why is the death knight a lich? Liches are usually arcane creatures, and the power's name "Spellmaster" also makes it look like it's meant for arcane abilities. Death knights are usually soldiers and defenders with martial prowess.
I'd say it's only for the use of recharging spells - not matrial or devine power sources.
But that's me being pickey ;)
 

TheLordWinter

First Post
On a seperate level, why is the death knight a lich? Liches are usually arcane creatures, and the power's name "Spellmaster" also makes it look like it's meant for arcane abilities. Death knights are usually soldiers and defenders with martial prowess.

Perhaps another template than Lich would fit better, and avoid issues of recharging via spellmaster?

The simplest answer would have to be I wanted to make a truly frightening undead solo monster, and those two templates seem to blend together to create a truly terrifying one. Upon looking at the Lich template, I can't really find anything that states it must use its powers on abilities with the Arcane power source - indeed, I can't find anything that contradicts a Fighter becoming a lich, so long as their intelligence and level are high enough. Thematically the lich also fits very well, making the character both an excellent melee fighter and someone who it is dangerous to draw too close to.

Storywise, it's an enemy who was cursed by the Gods to never die, based upon the Russian folklore figure Koschei the Deathless. A contemporary of Baba Yaga, he serves as the prototype for the lich, because he hid away his soul inside of a needle, inside of an egg, inside of a duck, inside of a fish, inside of a hare, inside of an iron chest buried at the foot of a tree on a distant island and could not be killed until the needle was destroyed.

So thematically and powers wise Lich is a smooth fit, but I am uncertain of how this power interacts with the death knight's recharging ability, or if I should stick with recharging base abilities that are supposed to be encounter only. Theoretically those should be much stronger and more battle changing, but at the same time, the possibility of spamming Unholy Flames each round is kinda scary, particularly with minions. The How to Design an Encounter thread makes me feel a bit safer though, since the encounter is being built at party level +2.
 

DracoSuave

First Post
I'd say it's only for the use of recharging spells - not matrial or devine power sources.
But that's me being pickey ;)

Given that monsters don't have power sources, generally, this is a huge nerf on it. Also given that it's a monster, there's no real point limiting yourself in that way.
 

-Avalon-

First Post
Also, I think divine should be allowed, all through prior editions you can find examples of Clerical Liches (especially in FR)...

As for the Death Knight Lich:
I see no problems with this, and it would make sense that it was a much harder fight. Imagine 2 situations, a Paladin who became evil, and a Sword Mage who became evil. Both could potentially lead to that situation, and would be pretty rough fights. I have found that enemy paladins are much harsher than player paladins. Player paladins kinda suck compared to the other defender types, but enemy paladins have minions and friends, in a much more numerous form, so it easier to pull off the defender role. Designate someone as your challenge, that person is taken out of the fight and must target your Pally, use an aoe attack of some sort that marks everyone, and they all must either attack the pally or suffer. Lets the guys who are with him do whatever they want.

A swordmage deathknight lich... that sounds like a fun concept hehe...

...... genasi swordmage deathknight lich... even better...
 

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