Question regarding multiclass: Shaman Spirit ability

Please open up your PHB and turn to page 277.

"Marked: You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't target the creature that marked you"

You realize monsters mark as well? It's the same thing. Combat Challenge and Divine Challenge both mark and have a special ability that occurs as well. "Marked" is a generic condition that gives a -2 debuff to a creature.

Yeah, I was just afflicted with dumbness. That's what you get for automating all your status effects into maptool macros. Haven't looked at that page in months, lol. So yeah, anyone can get the -2.

It is a great debuff. Still going to be slightly less valuable without a fighter or a pally, but could be of some use. The only thing I would wonder about with a party of all strikers is you may want the monsters attacking the BARD because he's likely to be the toughest guy. Unless you have an Avenger that is...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

1) Misdirected Mark wouldn't be targeting the Spirit Companion.
2) It is definately not an ally. An ally is a creature. Conjurations are powers. Powers are not creatures. Please refer to 'Conjuration' on page 220. The Spirit Companion description says nothing to override this.
3) Unless you are using a power that -explicitly- targets conjurations (or the spirit companion itself) -only- attack damage can affect a conjuration, and -only- if some extra rules text outside of the game allows for it. The spirit conjuration -does- say it can be targetted by melee and ranged attacks, and then goes on to say -only- damage can affect it. Being the recipient of a mark is -not- damage, and therefore cannot affect it.


Please note: The game treats spirit companions as effects, not as creatures. No text in the game treats them as creatures. Everything a shaman does that is flavored as a spirit or spirits is either a conjuration or a zone power, and everything a shaman does that is flavored to affect their spirits affects conjurations and zones.

A spirit companion follows the same rules for Flaming Sphere.
...

Yeah, this reply makes the most sense to me. It may not work out for me, but thanks all the same Draco!

(And thanks to all of the rest of you who contributed replies-- even if they did not pertain to subject, I browsed through the PHB2 and found a few things I didn't know about. Much appreciated!) :D
 

It is a great debuff. Still going to be slightly less valuable without a fighter or a pally, but could be of some use. The only thing I would wonder about with a party of all strikers is you may want the monsters attacking the BARD because he's likely to be the toughest guy.

Yeah, this and DanceofMasks responses had me thinking of a straight Bard too. I'm going to take a closer look at that possibility, thanks to you two.

Thanks for the replies, guys! ;)
 

This isn't like brash assault where the numbers are straightforward and easy to run, and therefore giving the choice to a foe is outright bad. At worst you steer the foe towards the resolution you want (except in the single situation that the monster can hit every single member of the party). Remember - the DM isn't supposed to be springing 'trap' abilities on the party, and if he's going to, then he can easily set you up to fail anyway.

I still disagree. The only way you steer your opponent into attacking one target is if that's a better option for them then taking a -2 to hit. You'd rather him not have that option at all. This has nothing to do with gotcha powers, it has to do with assuming your opponents will behave in a semi-intelligent fashion.
 

I disagree. Sometimes you give your enemies options that are 'traps.' For example, being marked to a guy who they have to trigger OAs in order to get to may be preferable to a straight -2 across the board. Or being marked to someone who has immediate interrupts to respond to being attacked with being attacked. Or being marked to someone that they need to run away from a persuit-venger to get to.

Giving an easy choice to an enemy? Not cool. When the choice is 'choose your poison' however, it's not so simple.
 

Setting traps are nice ... but ... in LFR particularly, since GMs there have a steady rotation of players (and players have multiple characters), the volume of data can get overwhelming.
I've had GMs make some very poor decisions on the part of the monsters simply 'cos the players at the table have too many simultaneous effects up ... and it's not as if we weren't using coloured rings and such to keep track.
Plus the sheer fatigue of GMing all day over several days of a con.

I like winning and all, but it's not a win if it's due to your foes being absent-minded.

So the more satisfying games have been when the PCs' abilities are mostly straightforward.

Of course, there's the occasional GM of awesomeness that can keep track of everything, and that's when my buddies and I break out our "finesse" characters.
 

I'd like to note that for the cost of one feat, a Spirit Companion is still a pretty cool gimmick. You get a mobile blocker that restricts enemy movement, and if the spirit happens to get attacked and takes sufficient damage to get killed (10+1/2lvl), you take 5 damage less than that, and can resummon the spirit - effectively making you a pretty good ranged defender.
 

Yeah, it is more than just a neat thing. I've talked to a few people that have tried out shaman and from what they are saying in the hands of a skilled player it is quite likely THE single most powerful class feature in the game.

Consider: The SC is immune to anything except direct damage. You cannot put ANY effects on it at all. It takes no damage from zones or blasts and bursts, isn't impeded by terrain at all, can effectively teleport to most areas of any battlefield, etc.

Here are some interesting things it can do that a character cannot. It can simply block an area of 1 square, denying ANY access to that square to the enemy. They cannot push it aside or otherwise move it or do anything to get past it except pop it. Even that doesn't work well because the shaman can simply set his minor action summon SC to trigger on the SC being popped! So it is kind of the ultimate wall. It is a small wall, but if you want to hold a doorway, it is a REALLY tough thing to get past.

It can largely negate a controller or artillery monster's defending skirmisher/soldier/brute/minion front line. The SC simply pops into existence behind the line and goes for the back rank monster. Many times at lower heroic the monsters really have VERY little chance of even popping the thing, and thus the shaman can hammer on them at very little risk to himself.

Quite often the shaman can arrange it so that the SC can see the target but the target cannot see the shaman. This is actually pretty easy to do in a pretty wide variety of terrain.

When faced with a single monster the SC really IS the ultimate meatwall. Aside from maneuvering the shaman into a corner or somehow putting a condition on him that stops his movement completely it is nigh on impossible to get past the SC. Even if you pop it, that eats the monster's attack for the round and if it pops and moves up it will take an OA, then the shaman will just shift back, pop in a new SC, and use his standard to either attack or open the range another square or two or however many he feels like.

Like I say, I talked to a couple of good DMs and both of them were really seriously beginning to wonder if the shaman is a balanced class at all. Maybe that was a bit of an overreaction, but the class sure does seem to offer some amazing flexibility. Consider, this is one of the few, if not possibly the only, class that one might seriously building an entire party from. No doubt such a party couldn't handle EVERY possible thing that could be thrown at it and you could devise some tactics that would beat it handily, but I think it would stand a really good chance of shining in any arbitrary encounter.
 

Consider, this is one of the few, if not possibly the only, class that one might seriously building an entire party from. No doubt such a party couldn't handle EVERY possible thing that could be thrown at it and you could devise some tactics that would beat it handily, but I think it would stand a really good chance of shining in any arbitrary encounter.

Very nifty point. What if half the party were made up of bards with melee reach weapons-- the Shamans put up a wall of Spirit Creatures while the Bards attack with Misdirected Mark-- but putting the originators of the mark on the Shamans. Think about that for a second. The Spirit Creatures block LoS for enemies, but not for party members. I don't have my PHB2 in front of me, but that would make for an obscene advantage. Any creature attacking the party would have to break through a wall of spirit creatures, while at the same time having a -2 to their hit rolls on some unseen enemy.

Probably illegal though. MM probably says you have to put the originator of the mark on an ally in LoS to the enemy. It would be interesting to try out though. ;)
 


Remove ads

Top