Question regarding Otyugh's and Grapple rules in general

[Olaf the Stout]

I have a question regarding Otyugh's and the dreaded grapple rules. Otyugh's have appeared in my last 2 sessions and I have used the grapple rules both times. I think that I have been using the rules correctly (the Battle Box cards have helped immensely!) but after looking at the D20 srd online I'm not so sure if I have been doing things completely correctly. Could those more rules-minded people help set me straight. This is the order that I do things.

Round 1

1. The Otyugh hits with a tentacle attack doing 1d6 damage.

2. Thanks to the Improved Grab ability it then gets to start a grapple as a free action without drawing an attack of opportunity.

3. Grapple checks are made. If the Otyugh wins then the target is grappled and he does constricting damage of 1d6. If the Otyugh loses then nothing else happens.

4. Depending on whether or not the PC had acted that round he may get a chance to try and break the grapple. If he succeeds he is free again. If not then he is still grappled.

Round 2 onwards

5. Assuming the Otyugh has maintained the grapple he can then constrict the PC automatically for 1d6 damage without needing to roll anything and can continue to do so until the PC escapes the grapple.

I have a few questions about this. Firstly in round 2 onwards does the Otyugh do just 1d6 damage for the constricting (this is how I have done it) or does he do 1d6 constricting damage + an additional 1d6 damage for his tentacle?

Secondly, it states that to maintain the grapple the Otyugh then has to move into the grappled PC's space otherwise the grapple is broken. What if there is a PC standing next to the grappled PC? The Otyugh has a 10ft by 10ft space so the other PC would be in the way. Does the non-grappled PC get pushed back or is the grapple broken?

And why does the grappler move into the grapplee's space? I would have thought that it would have been the other way around. (i.e. a Dragon grapples a halfling yet the Dragon has to move into the halfling's space. If the halfling has someone standing either side of him then the Dragon can move into his space and the grapple fails. )

Thirdly, does the Otyugh still get to attack other PC's (or the grappled PC) with it's other tentacle and/or bite?

Thanks in advance,

Olaf the Stout

 

[Piratecat]

If only we had one of those forums where you could specifically discuss rules!

I'll slide this over.

 

[Infiniti2000]

3. Grapple checks are made. If the Otyugh wins then the target is grappled and he does constricting damage of 1d6. If the Otyugh loses then nothing else happens.

If the Otyugh wins, per the Improved Grab description, the PC is pulled into the Otyugh's space unless the Otyugh had taken a -20 penalty on his grapple check.

5. Assuming the Otyugh has maintained the grapple he can then constrict the PC automatically for 1d6 damage without needing to roll anything and can continue to do so until the PC escapes the grapple.

The Otyugh needs to roll grapple checks and deals 1d6+1d6 damage each time. With a BAB of +4, he can only do this 1/round. Note that the constrict ability specifies "with a successful grapple check."

Thirdly, does the Otyugh still get to attack other PC's (or the grappled PC) with it's other tentacle and/or bite?

No, not unless the Otyugh took the -20 penalty. Once it grapples without that penalty, he can no longer attack anyone outside the grapple or use anything but grapple rules inside the grapple. If the Otyugh hits with his first tentacle, for instance, and successfully grapples, then his turn is over.

That should answer all your question you asked, since some had redundant answers. Hope it helps and have fun!

 

[Olaf the Stout]

If only we had one of those forums where you could specifically discuss rules!

I'll slide this over.

Sorry Piratecat. My bad. Thanks for the move.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

If the Otyugh wins, per the Improved Grab description, the PC is pulled into the Otyugh's space unless the Otyugh had taken a -20 penalty on his grapple check.

The Otyugh needs to roll grapple checks and deals 1d6+1d6 damage each time. With a BAB of +4, he can only do this 1/round. Note that the constrict ability specifies "with a successful grapple check."

No, not unless the Otyugh took the -20 penalty. Once it grapples without that penalty, he can no longer attack anyone outside the grapple or use anything but grapple rules inside the grapple. If the Otyugh hits with his first tentacle, for instance, and successfully grapples, then his turn is over.

That should answer all your question you asked, since some had redundant answers. Hope it helps and have fun!

Thanks for the reply Infiniti2000. I didn't read the detailed description of the Improved Grab ability. That would have answered a couple of my questions if I had.

A couple of further questions.

You said that once it successfully hits and grapples the character his turn is over. Otyughs normally have 2 tentacles and a bite as its full attack. Are you saying that if the Otyugh hits with its first tentacle attack it doesn't get the other 2 attacks unless it forgoes the use of its Improved Grab ability? What if it loses the grapple check, does it get to use its other 2 attacks then?

The constrict ability does say that to constrict you need to make a successful grapple check. I figured this was taken into account when the Otyugh won the grapple with its Improved Grab ability. I didn't think that it meant it had to succeed at a grapple check every round in order to do the constricting damage. Is a successful check every round to constrict the general consensus around here?

Thoughts?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Infiniti2000]

You said that once it successfully hits and grapples the character his turn is over. Otyughs normally have 2 tentacles and a bite as its full attack. Are you saying that if the Otyugh hits with its first tentacle attack it doesn't get the other 2 attacks unless it forgoes the use of its Improved Grab ability?

That's correct. On a successful improved grab, it's now grappling and its combat options are different. It cannot continue the full attack action. I'll point out that I houserule it differently (allowing natural weapon full attack in a grapple, albeit at a -4 penalty per weapon), but be forewarned some people contend that it creates too powerful of a combination, and they have valid reasons for that.

What if it loses the grapple check, does it get to use its other 2 attacks then?

Yes. This is a good reason to bite first, btw, rather than use a tentacle first.

The constrict ability does say that to constrict you need to make a successful grapple check. I figured this was taken into account when the Otyugh won the grapple with its Improved Grab ability. I didn't think that it meant it had to succeed at a grapple check every round in order to do the constricting damage. Is a successful check every round to constrict the general consensus around here?

The first round when the improved grab is made, only the one grapple check is required. The otyugh will inflict 1d6 for the tentacle attack and then 1d6 for the constrict. Then, it will be grappling. Next round, it gets one grapple check to inflict 2d6 damage (1d6 for the natural weapon from the improved grab, and 1d6 for the constrict). If it fails the subsequent grapple check, then it deals no damage and cannot make any other attacks that round (except if its victim escapes and someone provokes an AoO).

Special Note: The improved grab is a free action, so the otyugh cannot use it on an AoO.

 

[Nebulous]

If you don't mind, could someone post the Round-by-Round details of a VERY complicated grapple attack? Let's have multiple defenders, Improved Grab, Reach, multiple attacks, Escape Artists and reach weapons and whatever else that would commonly come up. I'd just like to see how it breaks down from someone who knows the rules really well.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

That's correct. On a successful improved grab, it's now grappling and its combat options are different. It cannot continue the full attack action. I'll point out that I houserule it differently (allowing natural weapon full attack in a grapple, albeit at a -4 penalty per weapon), but be forewarned some people contend that it creates too powerful of a combination, and they have valid reasons for that.

Yes. This is a good reason to bite first, btw, rather than use a tentacle first.

The first round when the improved grab is made, only the one grapple check is required. The otyugh will inflict 1d6 for the tentacle attack and then 1d6 for the constrict. Then, it will be grappling. Next round, it gets one grapple check to inflict 2d6 damage (1d6 for the natural weapon from the improved grab, and 1d6 for the constrict). If it fails the subsequent grapple check, then it deals no damage and cannot make any other attacks that round (except if its victim escapes and someone provokes an AoO).

Special Note: The improved grab is a free action, so the otyugh cannot use it on an AoO.

Infiniti2000, I thought that once the Otyugh successfully grappled a character they automatically did 1d6 damage with their tentacle each round until the grapple was broken/escaped from/released/etc. I thought that the Otyugh had to make the grapple check to do an extra 1d6 constricting damage in addition to the tentacle damage, not just to do any damage at all.

If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that once a Otyugh successfully grapples an opponent he does 2d6 damage (1d6 tentacle + 1d6 constrict) each round it beats its opponent in a grapple check. If it doesn't beat its opponent it does no damage that round?

Olaf the Stout

 

[isoChron]

Constrict (Ex): A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry. If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab.

Doesn't the Otyugh get another opportunity to grapple a second opponent or attack with it's other natural attacks if he takes a -20 penalty to the grapple check ? At least in round two ?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Doesn't the Otyugh get another opportunity to grapple a second opponent or attack with it's other natural attacks if he takes a -20 penalty to the grapple check ? At least in round two ?

I'm not exactly an expert on the subject, hence all my questions above. However I think that it does. Whether this would be a good tactical move is debateable though since it would almost certainly lose any grapple checks it attempted with a -20 penalty.

Perhaps Infiniti2000 or someone with more experience in this area could confirm this for me.

Olaf the Stout