Question: XP Penalty vs. LA?

[CombatWombat51]

I've seen the rules for buying off Level Adjustment. I like the idea, but I don't like the method. Too clunky. Could a permanent penalty to experience achieve the same results? Like, every +1 of LA is equal to a 5% XP penalty, or something along those lines? So a +2 LA creature would have a 10% XP penalty, and so on. Would something like that work?

Can any math-inclined folks figure if something like that is balanced against what UA proposes?

 

[Staffan]

Not sure about how it compares to UA, but I don't like it as a replacement. The problem is that it gives you an up-front bonus (a powerful race), but you don't have to pay until later (when you get XP).

And the penalty would have to be pretty high, percentagewise. A 20th level character would normally require 190,000 XP. A 19th level would need 171,000. That's 10% less. In other words, a 10% XP penalty barely amounts to a single level penalty by 20th level. If you put the balance point at, say, 7th level instead (21,000, and 6th level is 15,000), you'd need a 30% XP penalty to get a full level less.

 

[CombatWombat51]

Not sure about how it compares to UA, but I don't like it as a replacement. The problem is that it gives you an up-front bonus (a powerful race), but you don't have to pay until later (when you get XP).

And the penalty would have to be pretty high, percentagewise. A 20th level character would normally require 190,000 XP. A 19th level would need 171,000. That's 10% less. In other words, a 10% XP penalty barely amounts to a single level penalty by 20th level. If you put the balance point at, say, 7th level instead (21,000, and 6th level is 15,000), you'd need a 30% XP penalty to get a full level less.

That's a good point about how such a small percentage doesn't mean much.

I realize that such a system of XP penalties does nothing for balance at 1st level, but I'm ok with that for now. I'm more interested in this idea for low LA creatures, +1 to maybe +3. An equal level drow in the party, for example, will obviously be more powerful than a human or other core race, but not so powerful as to outshine everyone else, like say a mind flayer would be.

What about a higher percentage? Or, maybe a combination of LA for higher LA creatures and a percentage? So that a normal +2 LA creature would only be +1 LA, but would also have a 15% XP penalty, or something like that.

I'm trying to work towards something that would allow LA creatures to begin in a normal party that didn't start at high levels, but still has some semblance of balance. Maybe I should flip back to my 1E PHB and look at the % differences between the classes, like thieves to paladins. Without looking throw the PHB, I seem to recall that thieves needed something like 1,250 XP for level 2, and paladins needed 2,200, but I could be wrong. That's certainly a larger difference than 10 or 15%... I'll look it up later

 

[tauton_ikhnos]

5% XP penalty costs you 1 level at 40th level, and another at 80th. 10% XP penalty costs you 1 level at 20th, 40th, 69th, 79th. 20% XP penalty costs an extra level at each of 10th, 20th, 29th, etc.

Counterintuitive - a race that is less and less useful as you increase in level costs more and more as you increase in level.

If you just want to have LA creatures in a 1st level party, don't let them level until they have earned enough XP to be their HD + LA + 1. That is, a 4 HD ogre (LA +2) in a 1st level party would not gain any levels until the party hit 7th level. He would also earn XP as if he was 6th level, which would put him slightly behind the party when they finally caught up.

 

[ichabod]

I'm trying to work towards something that would allow LA creatures to begin in a normal party that didn't start at high levels, but still has some semblance of balance. Maybe I should flip back to my 1E PHB and look at the % differences between the classes, like thieves to paladins. Without looking throw the PHB, I seem to recall that thieves needed something like 1,250 XP for level 2, and paladins needed 2,200, but I could be wrong. That's certainly a larger difference than 10 or 15%... I'll look it up later

What I do is trim the race down so that it is the equivalent of an ECL +0 race. Then I make a racial class, with one level for each hit die the race starts with and one non-hit die level for each LA. Any special abilities that were trimmed out to make the ECL +0 version are class abilities of the racial class. Otherwise the racial class is treated as a prestige class with the prerequisite of being a member of the given race. That way you can start at any race at first level without unbalancing the party, and yet still get the special abilties you wanted later. It takes a bit of extra work, but I like the way it worked in my last campaign.