Questions about Energy Drain and Raise Dead

Alduk

First Post
When a creature has as many negative levels as its current levels, it dies instantly. What happens then?

Let's take a Rogue 7, for instance. She takes 7 negative levels from a vampire's energy draining slam attacks, and dies. A little later she receives a Raise Dead Spell. What happens? And what if she receives a Resurrection (or a True Res)?

Does she still have to make the Fort saves to avoid losing the levels forever?

Is it even possible to have her Raised? In other words, is Energy Drain considered a Death Effect?

What happens if she is Raised 48 hours after the attack? Does she have to make the Fort tests to avoid losing the levels while she is dead? Does she fail automatically? Or does she have to make them normally after she is revived, whenever that happens? (For this example, consider that the negative levels were inflicted by an Energy Drain spell, to avoid the implications of the rogue rising as an undead).
 

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In 3.0, (I'm not sure if 3.5 changed it), negative levels are generally not permanent. Generally after a certain amount of time you get to make a Fort save to automatically shrug off the effect.

Once a character is dead, they are dead. So, you can allow them to be raised either at 1st level, or roll for each negative level to remove it before the raise dead spell.

Considering dead bodies get saving throws, (read Speak with Dead for proof), it seems reasonable that they could get saves versus these negative levels as well.

I would NOT however allow them to get rid of the negative levels and then get up, recovered as if they never died.
 

Wycen said:
In 3.0, (I'm not sure if 3.5 changed it), negative levels are generally not permanent. Generally after a certain amount of time you get to make a Fort save to automatically shrug off the effect.

Yep, negative levels are still temporary in 3.5, and you have to make the Fort save to get rid of them after 24 hours, as I stated in the original message.


Once a character is dead, they are dead. So, you can allow them to be raised either at 1st level, or roll for each negative level to remove it before the raise dead spell.

I disagree that they would be raised at 1st level - the rogue in the example is still 7th level after all, she just accumulated 7 negative levels.


Considering dead bodies get saving throws, (read Speak with Dead for proof), it seems reasonable that they could get saves versus these negative levels as well.

Hmmm... in fact, Speak with Dead points me the other way: it states that "If the creature's alignment was different from yours, the corpse gets a Will save to resist the spell as if it were alive." To me, that means dead bodies usually don't get saves, and this one does just as a specific exception to the norm. Since no such exception is provided for Energy Drain, I'm inclined to say the Fort saves can't be made while the creature is dead.

If that's true, then the question becomes: do they get to make the saves only after being raised, or do they fail the saves automatically and all negative levels become drained levels (OUCH!) ?


I would NOT however allow them to get rid of the negative levels and then get up, recovered as if they never died.

Whoa, neither would I. Once their negative levels equal their current levels, they're dead for good (or at least until resurected, anyway). It doesn't matter if they still have the negative levels or not.

After all, you don't let a corpse come back to life just because the sword has been pulled from his chest. :)
 

Alduk said:
When a creature has as many negative levels as its current levels, it dies instantly. What happens then?

Let's take a Rogue 7, for instance. She takes 7 negative levels from a vampire's energy draining slam attacks, and dies. A little later she receives a Raise Dead Spell. What happens? And what if she receives a Resurrection (or a True Res)?

Does she still have to make the Fort saves to avoid losing the levels forever?

Is it even possible to have her Raised? In other words, is Energy Drain considered a Death Effect?

What happens if she is Raised 48 hours after the attack? Does she have to make the Fort tests to avoid losing the levels while she is dead? Does she fail automatically? Or does she have to make them normally after she is revived, whenever that happens? (For this example, consider that the negative levels were inflicted by an Energy Drain spell, to avoid the implications of the rogue rising as an undead).


Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.
A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
Material Component: Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp.

ENERGY DRAIN AND NEGATIVE LEVELS
Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. The creature making an energy drain attack draws a portion of its victim’s life force from her. Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough. Each successful energy drain attack bestows one or more negative levels on the opponent. A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained.
–1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
–1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
–5 hit points.
–1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).

If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.
Negative levels remain for 24 hours or until removed with a spell, such as restoration. After 24 hours, the afflicted creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 attacker’s HD + attacker’s Cha modifier). (The DC is provided in the attacker’s description.) If the saving throw succeeds, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each negative level it has gained. If the save fails, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one.
A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight. A creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect).


Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn (see the Vampire Spawn entry) 1d4 days after burial.
If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

Very grey area you found! There is that single day where technically a victim of an undead critter / energy drain has not yet become spawn, and technicaly the door to raisingis not shut. Unfortunately raise dead does not seem to indicate it restores negative levels. I would say the call is up to the DM.

if your body is buried, then you are a vampire spawn in 1d4 nights
if you body is not buried, thus preventing the vampiric spawing from taking affect, then you are a wight in 1 night.


Personally i would say the energy drain is similar to a death effect [in effect soul consuming] and would prevent raising.
 

Wow, what a conundrum. We just had a pc die of negative levels too. Course, they're too level to raise her, so the question didn't come up, but it certainly could.
 

Objects are immune to things that require fort saves and dont effect objects ;) Dead bodies are objects. So, are the negative levels on the 'body' or something else?

In any event, forcing a character who is 7th level and dies from 7 negative energy levels to come back at 1st level is pretty much the same as not letting them be raised. There must be a happier middle ground somewhere ;)
 

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